Another (Friends Against Aviation) FAA ramp check.

J

JayAre

Well-Known Member
First effective date on enroute charts aren't expired dates. Second if you look on your website you can see the expiration of the registration of the plane is currant. Again the issue date doesn't mean it's expired. And third I appreciate the verbal warning of "we're gonna check you again and you better have these issues resolved" Go F*** a goat Feds!
 
JayAre said:
First effective date on enroute charts aren't expired dates. Second if you look on your website you can see the expiration of the registration of the plane is currant. Again the issue date doesn't mean it's expired. And third I appreciate the verbal warning of "we're gonna check you again and you better have these issues resolved" Go F*** a goat Feds!
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You don't have to know the rules to enforce them. Just ask any cop.
 
I got ramp checked today in HSV by a fed. Nice enough guy, just checked the captain and my license and medical and was on his way.

Which begs the question...is people flying around without their docs really that much of a problem?
 
Screaming_Emu said:
I got ramp checked today in HSV by a fed. Nice enough guy, just checked the captain and my license and medical and was on his way.

Which begs the question...is people flying around without their docs really that much of a problem?
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No, they just have to check a certain number of people a month to mark the box that they did it.
 
Screaming_Emu said:
I got ramp checked today in HSV by a fed. Nice enough guy, just checked the captain and my license and medical and was on his way.

Which begs the question...is people flying around without their docs really that much of a problem?
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Yes apparently the last time they nailed a guy without his certificates. IIRC $500 ticket and a night at a dump hotel waiting to get a temporary,
 
JayAre said:
First effective date on enroute charts aren't expired dates.
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I assume you're talking about Jepp charts? At nationals NIFA competition, some of the judges would go around checking all our stuff, and they would complain that our charts weren't legal because the date had since passed. It was all jepp stuff, and they just couldn't wrap their minds around the fact that it was the date of issuance...
 
JustinS said:
I assume you're talking about Jepp charts? At nationals NIFA competition, some of the judges would go around checking all our stuff, and they would complain that our charts weren't legal because the date had since passed. It was all jepp stuff, and they just couldn't wrap their minds around the fact that it was the date of issuance...
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Did you kindly ask them to point out the regulation which requires current charts? Or charts at all?
 
JustinS said:
I assume you're talking about Jepp charts? At nationals NIFA competition, some of the judges would go around checking all our stuff, and they would complain that our charts weren't legal because the date had since passed. It was all jepp stuff, and they just couldn't wrap their minds around the fact that it was the date of issuance...
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That's funny. You'd think people would be familiar. I mean, who doesn't use jepps in a professional environment?
 
Screaming_Emu said:
I got ramp checked today in HSV by a fed. Nice enough guy, just checked the captain and my license and medical and was on his way.

Which begs the question...is people flying around without their docs really that much of a problem?
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Yeah, when our POI comes and ramp checks is they do all that, ask if our charts are up to date then lecture us for 20 min on all the stupid stuff we need to be on the lookout for. It really irks me that I get lectured by a person with only sim time in my airplane I have 4000+ hrs in. I guess the same could be said for the training dept. ohh well, cooperate graduate.
 
JayAre said:
First effective date on enroute charts aren't expired dates. Second if you look on your website you can see the expiration of the registration of the plane is currant. Again the issue date doesn't mean it's expired. And third I appreciate the verbal warning of "we're gonna check you again and you better have these issues resolved" Go F*** a goat Feds!
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Seek clarification from the FSDO on the en-route chart problem? Also, the Reg certs in our aircraft have the date of issuance and date of expiration on them, do yours not?
 
KSCessnaDriver said:
Did you kindly ask them to point out the regulation which requires current charts? Or charts at all?
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Haha. Well even if there is no reg stating specifically that. 91.103 required preflight action states "Each pilot in command shall, before beginning a flight, become familiar with all available information concerning that flight." I would feel as good airmanship and to cover your butt, it would be best to be as up to date as possible.

The FAA paints it as a black and white issue:

http://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/flight_info/aeronav/faq/


  • The only FAA/FAR requirements that pertain to charts are:
  • Title 14 CFR section 91.503[a] (Large and Turbojet powered aircraft)
  • Title 14 CFR section 135.83 (Air Carriers-Little Airplane)
  • Title 14 CFR section 121.549 (Air Carrier-Big Airplanes)

  1. The FAA has rendered interpretations that have stated the foregoing. The subject of current charts was thoroughly covered in an article in the FAA's July/August 1997 issue of FAA Aviation News. That article was cleared through the FAA's Chief Counsel's office. In that article the FAA stated the following:
  2. "You can carry old charts in your aircraft." "It is not FAA policy to violate anyone for having outdated charts in the aircraft."
  3. "Not all pilots are required to carry a chart." "91.503..requires the pilot in command of large and multiengine airplanes to have charts." "Other operating sections of the FAR such as Part 121 and Part 135 operations have similar requirements."
  4. ..."since some pilots thought they could be violated for having outdated or no charts on board during a flight, we need to clarify an important issue. As we have said, it is NOT FAA policy to initiate enforcement action against a pilot for having an old chart on board or no chart on board." That's because there is no regulation on the issue.
  5. ..."the issue of current chart data bases in handheld GPS receivers is a non-issue because the units are neither approved by the FAA or required for flight, nor do panel-mounted VFR-only GPS receivers have to have a current data base because, like handheld GPS receivers, the pilot is responsible for pilotage under VFR.
  6. "If a pilot is involved in an enforcement investigation and there is evidence that the use of an out-of-date chart, no chart, or an out-of-date database contributed to the condition that brought on the enforcement investigation, then that information could be used in any enforcement action that might be taken."
If you, as an FAA Safety Inspector, Designated Pilot Examiner, Flight Instructor, or other aviation professional are telling pilots something other than the foregoing then you are incorrect.
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Anyways. The feds really should know that Jepp has the latest edition date, and it does not have an expiration date. Rather the chart "expires," when a new amendment becomes available from Jeppesen, and it is the pilot's responsibility to update charts accordingly.
 
gotWXdagain said:
Seek clarification from the FSDO on the en-route chart problem? Also, the Reg certs in our aircraft have the date of issuance and date of expiration on them, do yours not?
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I'm not seeking any thing from this FSDO, the charts were correct and not expired he just didn't read or look close enough. Just like the aircraft registration he didn't know what he was talking about. Last ramp check by a different FSDO was whining about the airworthiness cert not saying what model of 1900. It must say BE1900 UB, UC or UE. Not just BE1900. When I said it was the FAA who issued it they said its not wasn't their fault. Regardless I was allowed to continue the flight and it was resolved in less than an hour with the new proper temp AWC waiting for me at my destination.
 
z987k said:
That's funny. You'd think people would be familiar. I mean, who doesn't use jepps in a professional environment?
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A LOT of cheap operators. My experince so far (minus one company) has been if they have government charts, I probably don't want to work there. If you are so worried about saving a few hundred dollars a year on charts, what else are you skimping on?
 
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