Cirrus, AirShares and TKS
- Thread starter mshunter
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killbilly
Vocals, Lyrics, Triangle, Washboard, Kittens
Okay, I may be wrong about this after all. I just mentioned it to my wife this morning, "Babe, do you remember having this conversation with me about..."
And apparently I have made up this memory out of whole cloth. So I asked her point blank about representation as a Fed. She said she didn't know, but that she did know it was illegal to represent oneself as a soldier or LEO.
So maybe it's not fraud. I'm still trying to figure out why I thought that - must have conflated separate conversations.
Anyway - it'd be disingenuous not to self-correct here, so there ya go.
Tommay85
Well-Known Member
TKS is the shiz. ANY severity of ice(going by the rate of accumulation definitions) just will not stick to the wings or props on max flow. You're usually alright unless you run out, or the cowling and spinner just get absolutely douched in ice. 
Shady freight dog tip: try using it as a de-ice instead of an anti-ice system in safe conditions(warm air below or VMC above) to see how it responds. This worked great on the 210, OK on the Baron. A Cirrus might cope, but I'm thinking the sharper leading edges may not respond well to this technique. You might try it out though. You use A LOT less fluid. Again, do it in conditions as if you were a non-fiki airplane. Coming from Flight Express(TKS equipped 210s and Barons), I hate hate HATE boots!
But yeah, some planning ahead can usually alleviate issues with not getting any. I usually carried 2-3 four gallon jugs of the stuff. That would usually get me through the entire night. YMMV though. Omaha for example doesn't have any TKS fluid on the field at all. You would think they would. I was the TKS errand boy for the operation. Usually had to bring down 6-8 jugs of fluid if the Denver/Des Moines guys were going to have one of THOSE nights.
Shady freight dog tip: try using it as a de-ice instead of an anti-ice system in safe conditions(warm air below or VMC above) to see how it responds. This worked great on the 210, OK on the Baron. A Cirrus might cope, but I'm thinking the sharper leading edges may not respond well to this technique. You might try it out though. You use A LOT less fluid. Again, do it in conditions as if you were a non-fiki airplane. Coming from Flight Express(TKS equipped 210s and Barons), I hate hate HATE boots!But yeah, some planning ahead can usually alleviate issues with not getting any. I usually carried 2-3 four gallon jugs of the stuff. That would usually get me through the entire night. YMMV though. Omaha for example doesn't have any TKS fluid on the field at all. You would think they would. I was the TKS errand boy for the operation. Usually had to bring down 6-8 jugs of fluid if the Denver/Des Moines guys were going to have one of THOSE nights.
TFaudree_ERAU
Mashin' dem buttons
Even if it isn't fraud, it's in bad taste.
killbilly
Vocals, Lyrics, Triangle, Washboard, Kittens
Agreed. Although, full disclosure: I apparently have some sort of internal double standard that I need to sort out, because it has never stopped me from impersonating an IBMer to get a better room rate. For some reason, I don't find that morally objectionable and I really should - makes me a hypocrite.
I suppose I have to stop doing that.
drunkenbeagle
Gang Member
IBM, Accenture, Raytheon, Citibank all have pretty good hotel discounts. Not hard to bluff your way into getting them. Oddly, the only discounts I ever see for bluffing pilot employment are at bars...
rframe
pǝʇɹǝʌuı
Because the easiest way to convince people you're a pilot is to be an obnoxious drunk?
drunkenbeagle
Gang Member
Never fails.
TwoTwoLeft
o- - - - - - -l
Yeah, that makes sense. We're not govn't employees but we do work on govn't contracts and are able to get the rate. Marriott properties as usually the most strict and want to see a copy of a contract as well as ID. The pilot's cert is a valid federal govn't issued ID and Ive never been questioned when asked to show it. I think fraud in this case would be making your own federal ID, posing as such, and using it. Impersonating military, well that goes without saying....
Using your pilot's cert off the job to get hotel discounts is probably more of a "moral dilemma" than fraud.
TwoTwoLeft
o- - - - - - -l
Just curious. When was the last time you had to worry about how much you were spending on a hotel while on the job?
TKS is the shiz. ANY severity of ice(going by the rate of accumulation definitions) just will not stick to the wings or props on max flow. You're usually alright unless you run out, or the cowling and spinner just get absolutely douched in ice.
I've done this many times in the Cirrus over the Midwest and you're right, the Cirrus doesn't do as well as I'd imagine a 210 doing, but it does save a lot of fluid. I've stayed clean, but come close a couple times to using eight gallons on a 7 hour flying day.
Nowadays, I totally wet the wings and tail out before hand in the plastic turbo bug smasher if there is any question. If I can't take extra because of weight or source some at a divert airport - sorry dude! You bought this thing
By the way... C90 with boots is the best airplane I've ever been in the ice with that couldn't just go higher and top everything. I don't know what it is about the king air but it just doesn't seem to accumulate much ice on the wings. I hardly ever get it.
TFaudree_ERAU
Mashin' dem buttons
I haven't. But even if I did, I wouldn't lie about working for the government. If it's at the discretion of the hotel management, why not say "Hey, I'm trying to stay as cheap as possible. Any chance you could get my rate in the ballpark of the government rate?"
Tommay85
Well-Known Member
If it's anything like the 210/Baron Flight Express setup, 70 minutes on max, 120 on normal flow. I found if I never needed continuous max, there were more pressing things going on though.
jrh
Well-Known Member
I don't have my FIKI SR22 manual in front of me, but I believe 8 gallons (full tanks) will last 240 minutes on normal, 120 on high, and 60 on max. I remember being impressed with the durations, and I know each flow rate is twice as much as the previous.
I don't have much experience in ice beyond what the normal flow would clear.
There is a TKS fluid level display on the G1000, similar to a fuel gauge. I'm not sure exactly how this measurement is taken, but it seems reasonably accurate.
Mark815
Well-Known Member
Thanks guys. I was always curious about that. I'm sure if there's no gauge in non G1000 equipped aircraft, there must be some sort of sight gauge?
Also if you have the TKS set to low flow for max duration, will that generally prevent the accumulation of light icing? I'm talking about being in visible moisture at lower altitudes this time of year and constantly getting ice.
Also if you have the TKS set to low flow for max duration, will that generally prevent the accumulation of light icing? I'm talking about being in visible moisture at lower altitudes this time of year and constantly getting ice.
TFaudree_ERAU
Mashin' dem buttons
I may be wrong, but I don't believe there are any non-G1000 FIKI Cirri.
Three things:
#1, you have a corporate job, that ALL of your job related expenses are paid for on the road. You have no room to speak about getting a discount.
#2: Why you so upset about something as trivial as this?
#3: He's flying LIDAR, on a government contract(NOAA?). He is a government contractor. He gets the government rate by default. Or, we could just turn it over to our own government to do, and take a $1m job cost and turn it into a $10m cost if you'd like.
Me, I'm a little more worried about what my responsibilities are in protecting what I got. I could care less if someone uses their pilot certificates to get a hotel discount. Their only about as valuable as a AAA card anyways.
TFaudree_ERAU
Mashin' dem buttons
The terms of my employment has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with it.
He's NOT a government employee, and therefore should NOT be getting the government employee discount. Marriott, for example, makes it very clear that contractors are not privileged to the government rate. http://www.marriott.com/File Blocks/US/Deals/chart.htm
The two companies for which I work do well over a combined billion dollars per year of work, under contract, for the government. Despite that, I've never so much as even THOUGHT about booking under the government rate. And as I mentioned, he does NOT "get the government rate by default."