AOPA Article about Police/DHS/FBI overreach

[SpiceWeasel]

http://m.aopa.org/aircraft/articles/2013/130110secret-no-fly-zone.html

The arrest warrant referred to a “no fly zone.” The incident report said that “a glider or drone had infiltrated the restricted airspace over the H.B. Robinson Nuclear Power Plant.” But Fleming knew nothing on the FAA sectional charts prohibited him from flying there.

I think we need to be very concerned about systematic government overreach. Especially since in this police state just being arrested can DQ you from a job.

 

[Ajax]

I saw that, it's terribly unfortunate and absurd

 

[drunkenbeagle]

We get complaints about gliders "buzzing the Walmart at 50 feet" at the airport every week. (The Walmart is miles away)

I feel sorry for the police that need to deal with these calls, when there is real crime going on.

 

[KSCessnaDriver]

There needs to be an investigation on the Barney Fife who got this whole thing rolling.

 

[flyingbum]

Whoever the LEO is that suggested "shooting down" his glider is unfit for public service. Absurd, yes. Insane, yes. Common sense used by LEO, NO! If the power plant is such a big deal, the airspace around it needs to be established and NOTAMs published.

 

[🦈💜]

This is why, by the way, I am a member of AOPA.

I do hope they refuse to let go of this particular piece of flesh until they've ripped it clean off. We need their representation for this very reason.

-Fox

 

[Ajax]

Whoever the LEO is that suggested "shooting down" his glider is unfit for public service. Absurd, yes. Insane, yes. Common sense used by LEO, NO! If the power plant is such a big deal, the airspace around it needs to be established and NOTAMs published.

OK, I'll admit. It took me far too long to realize LEO meant Law Enforcement Officer. I started reading the article more thoroughly trying to find this Officer Leo.

Two of my best friends are officers, and I've done ride alongs with both of them--I am very acquainted with the phrase. It's been one of those days.

 

[flyingbum]

OK, I'll admit. It took me far too long to realize LEO meant Law Enforcement Officer. I started reading the article more thoroughly trying to find this Officer Leo.

Two of my best friends are officers, and I've done ride alongs with both of them--I am very acquainted with the phrase. It's been one of those days.

I had on of those the other day too.

 

[flyingbum]

Adding to the thread:

The "Breach of peace" thing is just downright reeetahdid!

You want breach of peace?? Follow me to the crapper after a healthy dose of tacos!

 

[ComplexHiAv8r]

Easiest way to get DTW approach to talk to you and ask for FF over the lake is to give your position to the nuke plant. Usually by the second call they want to talk to you. 8)

 

[Qutch]

Notable how the Police Report puffed up the non-compliance angle in order to justify the arrest. If the below is correct then the incident could not have happened the way the Police said it did. If accurate, that would mean they either intentionally lied to the Court, or they memorialized pilot actions not observable to them. What's the penalty again when an ordinary citizen gets caught lying to Law Enforcement?

The arrest report, however, paints a different picture, alleging that Fleming “had to be ordered several times to land” before he complied. Griffin strongly contests this version of events: “I was the only one on the unicom with him,” she said. “I never demanded him to land.”

 

[Aceninja]

From a legal point of view, since the FAA did not require him to land, how much trouble would he have been in if he chose to continue his flight? The point is moot when you have idiots wanting to shoot a glider down though.

 

[nocturnalaviator]

Lets say they did shoot him down, then what? Is no action being taken against these LEOs? Threatening to shoot down an aircraft that should get everyone's attention. Seems like this is just pushed under the rug and another win for tyranny.

 

[Tommay85]

Lets say they did shoot him down, then what? Is no action being taken against these LEOs? Threatening to shoot down an aircraft that should get everyone's attention. Seems like this is just pushed under the rug and another win for tyranny.

Action is hardly ever taken against LEOs. They are above the law. By action, I mean criminal action.

"I over reacted and batoned you in the face during a peaceful protest? I flipped out when you didn't let me illegally search your car? My bad, see you in a month after I sit at a desk". Worse case they lose their job. Big effin deal.

I don't mean any direct disrespect to law enforcement, but it's pretty hard to show any respect when the bad apples aren't punished, and I mean REALLY punished.

 

[nocturnalaviator]

Being informed of stories like this just makes me nervous. In my line of work we are flying low and slow and sometimes over nuke plants. Now granted we coordinate the hell out our missions but who's to say some Mayberry cop wants to play hero and open a few rounds on me or arrest me and f up my career all in the name of "breach of peace". Makes me sick how law abiding citizens are being treated. And that goes for TSA too!

 

[Tommay85]

Being informed of stories like this just makes me nervous. In my line of work we are flying low and slow and sometimes over nuke plants. Now granted we coordinate the hell out our missions but who's to say some Mayberry cop wants to play hero and open a few rounds on me or arrest me and f up my career all in the name of "breach of peace". Makes me sick how law abiding citizens are being treated. And that goes for TSA too!

This scares me after the fact. When I did survey flying, we never coordinated ANYTHING that wasn't restricted/controlled on the sectional or via notam. We were at 2500 AGL though.

 

[nocturnalaviator]

This scares me after the fact. When I did survey flying, we never coordinated ANYTHING that wasn't restricted/controlled on the sectional or via notam. We were at 2500 AGL though.

Yeah nuke plants if we're low and slow less than 1500' well coordinate with security. We've had plenty of LEOs come into the office and wonder what was going on after local complaints. This is usually rectified by explaining who we are what we do and giving the officers coffee and a tour of the office and hangars.

 

[Qutch]

Yeah nuke plants if we're low and slow less than 1500' well coordinate with security. We've had plenty of LEOs come into the office and wonder what was going on after local complaints. This is usually rectified by explaining who we are what we do and giving the officers coffee and a tour of the office and hangars.

I do something similar to that. There is an activity I engage in on the coastlines that routinely results in 911 being called. I'm not doing anything illegal or that endangers anyone else, but it gets people excited. If I don't head it off in advance, when I look towards the shoreline it is not unusual for me to see patrol cars and fire engines with flashing lights waiting for me when I come ashore, or LEOs headed out to sea in my direction. Once the ball starts rolling it is hard to stop it. A procedure I use eliminates the risk and gives me a documented defense if I should be questioned later. Pilots should not have to do this, but it can be useful when flying near nuclear plants, chemical plants, oil refineries, open air assemblies, or any other sensitive targets. LEOs suggested that we do this and it has worked for us so far:

Do not call 911. But before arriving, do call the Non-Emergency Number for 911. Give them your info directly and ask them not to dispatch. I call or visit the Coast Guard station separately. It works for me. Bob Ridpath is a 911 dispatcher. He might be able to provide some insight into this proactive prevention procedure.
.

 

[Bigey]

I do something similar to that. There is an activity I engage in on the coastlines that routinely results in 911 being called. I'm not doing anything illegal or that endangers anyone else, but it gets people excited. If I don't head it off in advance, when I look towards the shoreline it is not unusual for me to see patrol cars and fire engines with flashing lights waiting for me when I come ashore, or LEOs headed out to sea in my direction. Once the ball starts rolling it is hard to stop it. A procedure I use eliminates the risk and gives me a documented defense if I should be questioned later. Pilots should not have to do this, but it can be useful when flying near nuclear plants, chemical plants, oil refineries, open air assemblies, or any other sensitive targets. LEOs suggested that we use do this and it has worked for us so far:

Do not call 911. But before arriving, do call the Non-Emergency Number for 911. Give them your info directly and ask them not to dispatch. I call or visit the Coast Guard station separately. It works for me. Bob Ridpath is a 911 dispatcher. He might be able to provide some insight into this proactive prevention procedure.
.

Calling dispatch before hand is in my opinion, a great idea. I work for the PD in the Airport Unit and if theres a headsup already given to dispatch, it'll get passed down to us (who do enforcement action on ground) and can help reduce the 911 calls since dispatch can clear the call before it even has to hit the units. However, do be warned that if the action is illegal and you call to advise (not knowing that it's illegal) they can then use your call or statement as intent.

 

[Bob Ridpath]

We routinely get contacted in advance when local electric companies check transmission lines via helicopter, if a gas company bleeds equipment at a pumping station, if construction blasting is occurring and so forth. The "heads-up" procedure generally works in our area. Worst case is having a police officer check the area to confirm what is going on.

A local fellow with a para-glider here generates any number of 911 calls when he flies on the eastside of the County. We also get frequent calls on nice VFR days when GA planes fly over the Hudson River, for medivac choppers, police aviation units and more rare military overflights for West Point activities. There is no airport in this county so something has to hit the ground before it constitutes an actual emergency here. Thankfully, we can defer most of these things with no action.

People don't like anything aviation-related, squirrels (raccoons/possums) on their porch, cats in a tree, cars driving too fast-slow-the speed limit, trees that "might fall" someday, ice fisherman, boat fisherman, shore fisherman, people who might knock on their door, call the wrong number or how long they have to wait at the McDonald's drive thru.

I'd say if you do something a bit out of the ordinary, it wouldn't hurt to let the appropriate local authority know via a non-emergency number. Of course, it is just a courtesy (certainly not a requirement) which could minimize any response if 911 IS called by busy bodies with cell phones... errr ... well-meaning citizens who feel a deep concern for a stranger's well-being.