A student that lies...

MikeD said:
But why should BASIC standards of conduct be different between the two? Basic things like integrity, punctuality, preparation? Is that REALLY asking too much of a civilian?
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I agree....IMO, I think most of those in the military understand what's at stake, they want those wings. Can't buy them, have to be earned. In the civilian world, I'm sure most folks want their wings/ratings but I think stakes aren't the same. No offense to my civilian brothers either.
 
chrisreedrules said:
Just to clarify, I certainly never did/would do this in front of customers. This was a private conversation that I had with said student. I told the new CFI how I handled it because he asked, "What was wrong with ______ today"? Then he told me that I was possibly a little too harsh. And now he's the new guys problem.
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My bad, sorry about that, I misread your original post. But I am glad to hear you passed him off to the new guy. Hope the new guy follows through and doesn't take any crap either.
 
I worked my way to my spot in life, nothing makes me more sick than to listen to piss ant little adult "kids" who've had everything handed to them, complain about their horrible lives...

Too bad it wasn't 30 years ago, you could have given him a verbal lashing and a smack upside the head! That's too harsh I know, we're supposed to hug our problems away today.

Some of the 18/19 year olds I meet around the flight school, and life in general, I honestly have no idea how the hell they're going to survive in the real world.
 
Yeah, there are certainly some real "winners" out there. I've had one student who constantly lied, and I finally caught him in one. It's not a wise decision to tell your CFI that you are stuck in traffic on the interstate, and can't make our lesson, especially since I had been flying over said interstate for the last 1.8 hours shooting approaches with another student. As soon as I told him this, he was magically stuck on a different road, far from our final approach course. The best part was when his buddy yelled at him to, "hurry up," loud enough for me to hear. I got paid for two hours, and got to eat lunch. A win in my book!

I've also had a few students who mommy and daddy pay for everything. Those are the worst. A few CFIs and I have talked about this, and have come to the conclusion that they love the idea of being a pilot, but have never worked for anything before in their life. Now because they have soloed, the feel they should be sitting in the left seat of a (enter large, wide bodied aircraft), flying all over the world. After all, "pilots let autopilot do everything including the landings..." All I could do was shake my head...

I don't think you reacted to harshly. I think the sarcasm drives the point home very effectively. My instructors gave me crap, and when the situation dictated, I gave them some. Now, I completely expect the same from my students. If I screw something up, call me on it. It keeps me humble, and give them a small boost of confidence that they're picking up on the finer details (plus it breaks that fear of speaking up if something doesn't seem/feel right). 18+ year olds give each other crap about everything. If they can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen! If not, it's not my problem. I am here to help them achieve their goals, not achieve it for them, while they sit back and do what ever it is they do.
 
USMCmech said:
I will not sign off on any student if I would not be willing to let them carry my kids as passengers.

End of discussion.



Usually if I have any serious reservations I would simply stop working with them.
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Very good!

CFI's have to watch who they sign off. The FAA will come after you, years later, if your student(s) are involved in questionable action, years later!

Axe my how I know. :)


Sent from my free Obama Phone
 
chrisreedrules said:
Anyone else have these? I can't stand them. I know we are supposed to be accepting of almost anyone as a student. But lying to my face is one way to aggravate me fast. This kid is 18 years old, has had everything handed to him in his life (his parents words not mine), and never studies. I think he is upset in general lately because he has hit this "wall" I like to call aviation where things aren't just handed to you. You have to work hard to achieve your goals. Scenario:

My student sends me a text message at Noon, asking what time he should show up for our ground... I reply that our ground is at 2:00PM and we have a flight right after. 2:00PM rolls around and he is nowhere to be found. I sit there until 2:45PM, at which time I figure he just isn't going to show. Which upsets me because from our texts earlier in the day, he gave me the impression he would be here at 2:00PM. Maintenance asks me to run-up one of our aircraft that hasn't flown in a couple weeks (we do this from time to time if it is an aircraft that doesn't fly often just to keep the engine up and running well) which I do for about 15 minutes. I walk back into our lobby and there he is, just sitting there. I call the student back into my office and the conversation goes a little something like this:

ME: "Hey man, hows everything going today"?

STUDENT: "Pretty good man, ate a good lunch and I'm really excited to go fly today".

ME: "Well thats unfortunate because you gave me the impression that you were going to be here at 2:00PM for ground... And now we aren't going to have time to go fly".

STUDENT: "I have been here since 1:50PM"!

ME: (And I'm naturally a sarcastic person, I can't help myself in situations like this) "Well someone call Dr. Xavier because we must have an X-Men here... I've been sitting in the lobby literally the whole time, and unless you walked through the wall there is no way you have been here since 1:50PM".

STUDENT: Starts stuttering and stammering

ME: "I don't care about your excuse, you already lied to me... Bottom line, my time is money. If you aren't going to be able to make it on time, no sweat. I know everyone is human and things come up some time. BUT you shouldn't give me the impression that you are going to show up on time and then come in a hour late and act like nothing is wrong. This is my job, its how I pay my bills... Don't waste my time, and please don't lie to me".

...From this point I got on with our ground, but I could tell he was a little shaken up for whatever reason. Maybe mommy and daddy never got serious with him. I don't know. But our new instructor who has been sitting in on our ground lessons to try and gleam a few things here and there told me afterwards that I was probably a little too harsh. I don't think I was. What say you? How do you deal with students who will bold faced lie to your face?
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I had one student like this, his father was also paying for all of his flying. I never had an issue with him no showing me or showing up late but when he hit 25 hours and was still no where near solo (mostly because of a lack in studying ground material). One very frustrating day I asked him what his dads reaction would be if I called him and told him about all the money he was wasting because of his sons lack of effort, after a quite fearful look came to his face and a silence came about the room I told him if he didn't know his you know what the next time we met that's what I was going to do and made sure to get his dad's personal number from him, not the flight school file. Two weeks later I called his dad, I don't know what happened in the next week but after that 5 minute phone call, said student what THE MODEL STUDENT. He already had been a good stick but he owned the knowledge stuff too. Might be worth it, might also be worth charging him for the scheduled block whether he is there or not. If that doesn't work, consider just cutting your losses
 
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