At what point do 121 crews delay arrival/ dept due to WX?

[Autothrust Blue]

When the dispatcher says so.

You/your Captains let dispatch fly your airplane? Fascinating.

Nah, mostly Delta, a few Pinnacle/Mesaba, and one DHL is who I'd usually hear. One particular night I listened to 16 guys coming up on departure, pooping their pants, demanding an immediate turn. It's red and purple, dumbasses!

There's something about bold pilots, old pilots, but no old, bold pilots that comes to mind.

One big cell in a departure corridor is, as you know, different from "TS ALQDS." Unless of course there's only one way in or out of the airport, in which case, we'll just wait.

I (as FO) have lined up at DFW, turned on the radar at the request of departure, done some painting, offered them a heading ("about 030 should work initially") and launched. It worked out alright, but the departure rate was super slow, and not a little rough. I personally prefer to wait (and let the funny looking purple airplanes give me a report on just how nasty it is).

Because: No-go weather is an extremely transient phenomenon. Waiting about 20 minutes can give you a much improved ride, and you can do that with the folks on board, blocked out, at a hold pad (you did bring enough fuel to do that, right?). The stuff that scuds across DFW in the springtime does so in bands, and you can time things to get out between them.

(then there was this one time in TLH, but you have to buy a beer in order to hear that story)

Yea because their 3 day trips are pretty darn productive!

I could care less about that when it comes to making a decision to wait for the "+TSRAGU" to move off.

 

[Kingairer]

I think its easier on takeoff to make the call, bc youve been on the ground for at least 30 minutes and gotten a close personal view of what the weather is doing and where its heading. If you are inbound you are having to look at things much quicker while you are in motion and are probably more dependant on ride reports of the guy ahead of you.

 

[BobDDuck]

That's funny... I have a TLH beer required story too. And I don't even drink.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

I think its easier on takeoff to make the call, bc youve been on the ground for at least 30 minutes and gotten a close personal view of what the weather is doing and where its heading. If you are inbound you are having to look at things much quicker while you are in motion and are probably more dependant on ride reports of the guy ahead of you.

"Hey, Your Airworthiness, the ramp is closed...if the toads are inside, maybe we should be too."

 

[highalt41]

Nah, mostly Delta, a few Pinnacle/Mesaba, and one DHL is who I'd usually hear. One particular night I listened to 16 guys coming up on departure, pooping their pants, demanding an immediate turn. It's red and purple, dumbasses!

Yeah MSP in the summer can get crazy .. I've had some pretty interesting experiences going in there

 

[matt152]

Block or Better. Be safe!

 

[Tommay85]

Yeah MSP in the summer can get crazy .. I've had some pretty interesting experiences going in there

Yeah, but as Autothrust pointed out, they're pretty fast moving usually. I got really lucky this summer out of STP, never had to delay. Take off, circumnavigate the thing, and go on my merry way. I'm a HUGE pansy with turbulence, so fine by me.

I just couldn't believe what I was seeing popping out of HUGE cells over MSP on that one stormy night. It's like they didn't even look at the weather, or being the end of the night, said "fuggit". Perhaps relying solely on the onboard radar, or even the size of the airplane, I cringed at what their pax must have been going through, judging by the intensity of the pilot's voices on the radio.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

UAL- we always have the radar on in a situation like that... we never say "fuggit" because it's the end of the evening. We look at our scan and check that the corridor is clear.

Onboard radar gives a much more accurate live scan than what you see on NEXRAD, as the onboard is looking exactly where we are going.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

Onboard radar gives a much more accurate live scan than what you see on NEXRAD, as the onboard is looking exactly where we are going.

Indeed it does. NEXRAD is "big picture" but it's also (relatively) "old picture." What you can see with the unit in the nose is a lot more valuable for tactical use than what you can pull up on your iPad. Shut down at the gate, of course.

 

[Tommay85]

UAL- we always have the radar on in a situation like that... we never say "fuggit" because it's the end of the evening. We look at our scan and check that the corridor is clear.

Onboard radar gives a much more accurate live scan than what you see on NEXRAD, as the onboard is looking exactly where we are going.

I wasn't saying it shouldn't be on. WITH the onboard radar, I just find it baffling that a little more than a dozen air crews; major, regional, and freight, went up on a hell ride when it was going to be out of the area in 30 minutes. Still gotta use the thing correctly though, otherwise it might as well not even be on.

I disagree about the value of nexrad. Lots of trend information from it for starters.

 

[wheelsup]

Below the storm the ride is generally smooth

 

[Tommay85]

Below the storm the ride is generally smooth

Depends on the storm. I came into OMA one night, easily beating a line by about 20 minutes, but still encountered a random nasty downdraft 40 miles away from the thing. Stupid storms

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

I wasn't saying it shouldn't be on. WITH the onboard radar, I just find it baffling that a little more than a dozen air crews; major, regional, and freight, went up on a hell ride when it was going to be out of the area in 30 minutes. Still gotta use the thing correctly though, otherwise it might as well not even be on.

I disagree about the value of nexrad. Lots of trend information from it for starters.

How do you know it was a hell ride? If it really was that bad, someone is going to refuse departure. Since no one did, it obviously it's not what you're assuming it was.

Nexrad is good for strategic planning, not for tactical. Onboard is your tactical device, and that's what they were looking at, and that is what the subject at hand is on. It gives a much more accurate close picture that you weren't seeing.

 

[wheelsup]

Depends on the storm. I came into OMA one night, easily beating a line by about 20 minutes, but still encountered a random nasty downdraft 40 miles away from the thing. Stupid storms

Downdrafts happen from rain shoots, no way were you 40 miles away hitting a downdraft. Maybe a gust front associated with the downdraft but that is not nearly as dangerous.

 

[DPApilot]

That's funny... I have a TLH beer required story too. And I don't even drink.

Funny, I have a good TLH one too.

 

[Tommay85]

How do you know it was a hell ride? If it really was that bad, someone is going to refuse departure. Since no one did, it obviously it's not what you're assuming it was.

Nexrad is good for strategic planning, not for tactical. Onboard is your tactical device, and that's what they were looking at, and that is what the subject at hand is on. It gives a much more accurate close picture that you weren't seeing.

Well, I guess I don't know for sure as I didn't personally fly through it, but fixed wing pilots shouldn't sound like they have the shakes like they're in a helicopter with a missing rotor blade. Nor drastically increase the work load on the controller because they chose to depart into red and purple, like an idiot.

Nexrad works alright if you want to stay 30 miles away. Android radar! Yes, picking through stuff, nexrad is worthless.

 

[Tommay85]

Downdrafts happen from rain shoots, no way were you 40 miles away hitting a downdraft. Maybe a gust front associated with the downdraft but that is not nearly as dangerous.

Well, this was in a 210, it doesn't take much. I don't know what to tell you otherwise. I was stuck in a shallow descent for a few minutes.

 

[wheelsup]

Well, this was in a 210, it doesn't take much. I don't know what to tell you otherwise. I was stuck in a shallow descent for a few minutes.

A much more probable explanation is some sort of mechanical wave or mountain wave turbulence from the gust front pulling you down

Look at a picture of a thunderstorm. Where is the downdraft? It's caused by the rain letting go and falling earthward. A thunderstorm downdraft isn't something that causes a "shallow descent", it brings down large aircraft. 6000+ fpm from a large thunderstorm.

 

[Stomp16]

But, the downdraft hitting the ground can be extremely powerful and go all directions from the storm at a high rate of speed. Being in the OMA area, he more than likely encountered the resulting downdraft straightline winds from a supercell. When a supercell implodes on itself and falls apart, all that energy falls to earth an has to go somewhere. Depending on the size of the storm, it is completely possible these winds were felt as far as 40 miles ahead of the storm.

 

[Tommay85]

I was also going to say that while yes, the main downdraft associated with a particular cell is also inside said cell, there are also other down drafts from the convective activity in general. Like I said, I was in a 210, and a bent filthy one at that. You pretty much feel every mouse fart of air movement in that thing. If I were in what I'm in now, I probably would have noticed and merely thought of it as the plane flying like it's usual sloppy self.