ATP checkride, failed, then passed same night. Career advice.

DPApilot said:
In the sim and real life. Very different haha. I guess the Saab doesn't like to chop and drop like the Beech though...
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Beech products are like pushing a Mack truck through the air. Heavy, drag everywhere - therefore slow, and uses TONS of gas. As a result they also drop out of the air like a rock, and slow down very quickly.
 
z987k said:
Beech products are like pushing a Mack truck through the air. Heavy, drag everywhere - therefore slow, and uses TONS of gas. As a result they also drop out of the air like a rock, and slow down very quickly.
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The 19 was a rocket! It could climb like a champ fully loaded! The Saab, not so much....
 
rockman2343@aol.com said:
Although I hve my ATP now, I didn't pass first time, failed on the single engine landing, I went around. That being said I prepared well in advance and my oral went great but after 1 hour of practice, my feeling and comfort for the sim just wasn't quite where I would've liked it, (shocker). That being said at the end of the day it was my fault for not puting the correct inputs during the landing. It was a 121 checkride.
Anyhow, I work for a 121 regional right now, and as most of you know I also have a DUI. So I am debating on moving forward with the airline career or to just go work at my guard base as a jet mechanic full time. So any and all thoughts on continuing in this industry with 1 checkride failure, and a DUI. Thanks.
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I think you should contact your union. If what you say is accurate there shouldn't be a bust and you can have this reviewed. Just my thoughts.
 
N519AT said:
Question for people at other airlines: Are your FOQ Checkrides (ATP rides) train to proficiency or just pink slip and you're done?
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At AE it is pink slip, there is no re-training allowed during the event. That being said, they are allowing slight deviations from ATP mins, as long as you correct (like going +12kts fast, 110ft off, etc). Our FOQ was ATP/PIC type ride. Additional maneuvers were taxiing, aborted t/o (all the actions required/capt incapacitated), steep turns, and flapless visual approach with no glideslope landing aids (no GS, papi, vasi). They wanted to see a lot of the applicants judgement. We already had to demonstrate a single engine missed (they have been focusing on failure while transitioning in second segment climb, where the sim is the squirreliest) as well as v1 cuts.

We have 3 days of recurrent, 1 ground prep day, 3 sims to practice, oral day, and a sim checkride day. Also a day off within that block and LOFT afterwards. We used to have 2 sims to practice but the failure rate was about 60%. They added the extra sim and after an initial shock of additional failures, the rate has dropped quite a bit. I think last I heard it was 30% range.
 
jdlilfan said:
We used to have 2 sims to practice but the failure rate was about 60%. They added the extra sim and after an initial shock of additional failures, the rate has dropped quite a bit. I think last I heard it was 30% range.
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So 30% of the applicants fail the ride and are let go?
 
AA34 said:
So 30% of the applicants fail the ride and are let go?
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Not quite, they get re-training and can attempt the event again. Can get complicated because we have a points system. Sims are worth a whole point, so 3 strikes and you're out. We have had a lot of FO's "resign" in the last few months though. Hence the hiring, losing about 20-30 a month in attrition, mostly off the bottom.
 
jdlilfan said:
At AE it is pink slip, there is no re-training allowed during the event. That being said, they are allowing slight deviations from ATP mins, as long as you correct (like going +12kts fast, 110ft off, etc). Our FOQ was ATP/PIC type ride. Additional maneuvers were taxiing, aborted t/o (all the actions required/capt incapacitated), steep turns, and flapless visual approach with no glideslope landing aids (no GS, papi, vasi). They wanted to see a lot of the applicants judgement. We already had to demonstrate a single engine missed (they have been focusing on failure while transitioning in second segment climb, where the sim is the squirreliest) as well as v1 cuts.

We have 3 days of recurrent, 1 ground prep day, 3 sims to practice, oral day, and a sim checkride day. Also a day off within that block and LOFT afterwards. We used to have 2 sims to practice but the failure rate was about 60%. They added the extra sim and after an initial shock of additional failures, the rate has dropped quite a bit. I think last I heard it was 30% range.
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Damn you guys get 3 sims to practice? We get an hour to do the new things we weren't trained on.

They figure we can do a PC without any training we should be able to do this.


This post brought to you by beta from my iPhone.
 
The 3rd sim (what was the 2nd sim) is a phase check. It is a sat/unsat event and if unsat gets reported to the FAA as well. Forgot to mention that.

Frankly I'm surprised we didn't just get an extra hour of training like you guys. One APD had told us though that our CMO was one who pushed for 2 sessions. The probationary checkride after one year of employment at AE was without practice.
 
N519AT said:
Damn you guys get 3 sims to practice? We get an hour to do the new things we weren't trained on.

They figure we can do a PC without any training we should be able to do this.


This post brought to you by beta from my iPhone.
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And the problem with that is there is no train to proficiency for the ATP ride. I'm not saying you can be sloppy on the PC, but there is some room for error. It's a fact in aviation that skills that you don't use degrade over time, so I think it's only fair that we recieve adequate training for the checkride.
 
jdlilfan said:
At AE it is pink slip, there is no re-training allowed during the event. That being said, they are allowing slight deviations from ATP mins, as long as you correct (like going +12kts fast, 110ft off, etc). Our FOQ was ATP/PIC type ride. Additional maneuvers were taxiing, aborted t/o (all the actions required/capt incapacitated), steep turns, and flapless visual approach with no glideslope landing aids (no GS, papi, vasi). They wanted to see a lot of the applicants judgement. We already had to demonstrate a single engine missed (they have been focusing on failure while transitioning in second segment climb, where the sim is the squirreliest) as well as v1 cuts.
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Turn the autopilot O-F-F! ;)
 
Autothrust Blue said:
Turn the autopilot O-F-F! ;)
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In the SIM? Heck no! Until the APD says "A/P off" or fails it! I'm not there to be a SIM god, I'm there to pass a checkride and I'll use Level 1 of the Automation per CFM10 thanks!

9E gives you - observation of a CA "PC oral" (which is super easy), and non-fly duties on a CA PC. Then <= 1 hour of practice of maneuvers. 2 Flaps 0 before ride, 1 steep turn before ride, 2 RTOs before ride, 1 taxi-in...
 
Hacker15e said:
Depends on your perspective.

In the F-15E, I burned about 8,000#/hour in max endurance cruise. In the Be-300, it was only about #500/hour.
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500 an hour per side? Our Be-200 burns 800 an hour total in normal cruise below 280.

DPApilot said:
The 19 was a rocket! It could climb like a champ fully loaded! The Saab, not so much....
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I can't help it you fly slow turboprops. :D
 
cencal83406 said:
In the SIM? Heck no! Until the APD says "A/P off" or fails it! I'm not there to be a SIM god, I'm there to pass a checkride and I'll use Level 1 of the Automation per CFM10 thanks!
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Sorry, that's specific to the ERJ 145 and second-segment missed approach engine failures. The use of the autopilot during a single-engine go-around is prohibited (why I still remember this I've no clue) as the autopilot will readily exceed its authority while trying to keep the airplane straight.
 
z987k said:
500 an hour per side? Our Be-200 burns 800 an hour total in normal cruise below 280.



I can't help it you fly slow turboprops. :D
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Doing Max range power on our 200 we could get it down to 200 or 190 lbs per side. The guy I flew with was all about doing this to save fuel until I pointed out to him that he was putting way more time on the engines which was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyy more expensive than gas.

180 kts TAS at FL250? yeaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuurrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeejet
 
rockman2343@aol.com said:
And the problem with that is there is no train to proficiency for the ATP ride. I'm not saying you can be sloppy on the PC, but there is some room for error. It's a fact in aviation that skills that you don't use degrade over time, so I think it's only fair that we recieve adequate training for the checkride.
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Exactly. I mean I understand, but at the same time it would definitely nice to have more time. Sim time is at a premium right now because of the ATP rule. They're (C5) sending people out to SEA right now for recurrent because we can't get enough time in ATL.

When I worked at FlightSafety, their training program for the aircraft to which I was assigned called for 2 days of recurrent sim along with a checkride on the third day for 135 clients. For Part 91 clients, it was recurrent sim session for all 3 days. The fact that we don't do that in Part 121 is a little eye opening. Yeah, we fly a lot more per year than 135 and 91 crews, but it would be nice to see some scenarios that we see on the line in the sim. I wish we had the opportunities to see these so we could dissect them and see what we did right/wrong/etc.
 
N519AT said:
Doing Max range power on our 200 we could get it down to 200 or 190 lbs per side. The guy I flew with was all about doing this to save fuel until I pointed out to him that he was putting way more time on the engines which was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyy more expensive than gas.

180 kts TAS at FL250? yeaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuurrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeejet
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I honestly have no idea when the econ cruise is for our airplanes, as that is never how we operate them. I'd have to get the book out and figure it out.
My airplane burns ~250 a side for 285 true at FL250, and our other turboprop, the Be20 burns 400 a side at the same altitude.
 
N519AT said:
The guy I flew with was all about doing this to save fuel until I pointed out to him that he was putting way more time on the engines which was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyy more expensive than gas.
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This was what we did with the P-180 I used to fly. Much cheaper to fly in the mid twenties and fly max speed then to pay per hour operating costs.
 
Autothrust Blue said:
Sorry, that's specific to the ERJ 145 and second-segment missed approach engine failures. The use of the autopilot during a single-engine go-around is prohibited (why I still remember this I've no clue) as the autopilot will readily exceed its authority while trying to keep the airplane straight.
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Most APDs are failing the engine on the missed from a non precision. The autopilot is off at MDA. Leave MDA and 100 feet from landing, visuals go away, go around, throttle up, and bam one engine fails.
 
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