"Too low. Gear."

"FUUUUUUUU" is what their reaction was I'm sure.

I'd normally argue that they got the thing down without bending any metal and the cargo got there on time, so no problem. I mean, it's not like they were in the flare holding it off waiting for the gear to come down, but I imagine that catching something like this this late in the approach is just asking for something bad to happen. At the very least, I doubt FedEx is on board with the philosophy. :D
 
PeanuckleCRJ said:
seagull- Am I correct in stating that the MD-10 is "corrected" to land like the MD-11 by adding the LSAS to it as well? All the guys I know at DL that flew the MD-11 talk about how strange and mechanical the MD-11 was to land, whereas the NW guys that flew the DC-10 only report an extremely stable and smooth landing machine.
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The MD-11 has the LSAS, the -10 does not, it is still the same airplane, flight control-wise, as the DC-10s. The MD-11 software load that was added the early 2000's (coincident, but separate than the MD-10 introduction) adds increased pitch rate damping, among other things, so the handling qualities are now very similar. When DL had it, it was prior to that software load.
 
Update on this posted someplace else..

The captain was flying. He never called for the gear down or the final flaps. The f/o made several queries, and the captain didn't answer.

Thinking the captain had checked out on him, the f/o threw down the gear and flaps, and made the landing, thinking it was not a good idea to go around with an incapacitated crew member.

The captain came back to him and claimed to not remember any of it. There was a meeting with management over the incident, and it was decided to send the captain for some medical tests.

Turns out he had a brain tumor. He is doing well in treatment but is not expected to come back.
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Still amazing how he kept flying the airplane in a trance. Like it's partially pre-programmed into our brains.
 
Hacker15e said:
MikeD was a board member on the Safety Investigation Board, which is a guarded process that releases internal-use-only, privileged information for the USAF. I have to believe that he is being extremely careful about what he says and how he says it. He is susceptible to prosecution if he intentionally or inadvertently releases information that is privileged.

The link to the executive summary of the AIB, which is the releasable report:

http://usaf.aib.law.af.mil/ExecSum2006/B-1_8May06.pdf
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I certainly understand the personal constraints people impose upon themselves in the interest of self-preservation. It's hard to take the moral high road in the face of potential prosecution, or job loss, or social shunning. But uh, yeah, wouldn't want the people who pay for these, er, mistakes, to be allowed to be made aware of how their money is being spent. After all, we also pay for these wonderful... processes. No worries. Buy some more stuff. What's good for General Electric is good for General Petraeus is good for America. More grease, more golf courses, and the great, proscribed, surveilled circle continues.
 
Crop Duster said:
I certainly understand the personal constraints people impose upon themselves in the interest of self-preservation. It's hard to take the moral high road in the face of potential prosecution, or job loss, or social shunning. But uh, yeah, wouldn't want the people who pay for these, er, mistakes, to be allowed to be made aware of how their money is being spent. After all, we also pay for these wonderful... processes. No worries. Buy some more stuff. What's good for General Electric is good for General Petraeus is good for America. More grease, more golf courses, and the great, proscribed, surveilled circle continues.
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Did you just imply that since we don't release privileged SIB data, that it's a conspiracy to spend more government money?

SIB data includes potentially incriminating and sometimes very un-flattering information on the actions of the crew. If that information was released, they would be susceptible to public ridicule and potential prosecution in civil courts. The goal of the SIB is to release this sensitive information to USAF crews as soon as possible after the incident, so we can learn from it and avoid making the same mistakes. Quite literally, if any of our friends screws up, we get to watch the recreation, live audio, and sometimes live HD footage, of them dying. The public doesn't need to see that. Sure, there's some carry-over between airline and USAF flying sometimes, but a lot of times not. Do airliners need to be concerned about passing their mandatory climb points on night, IMC low level routes? Probably not.

It is designed to keep USAF crews safe in the air AND safe from civilian interference and prosecution. Note: as soon as someone runs their mouth about privileged SIB information, that information is no longer privileged, and it opens the aircrew up to potential prosecution. So if a USAF guy talks about the SIB, he's only f***ing over his teammates.

So no. You will not get it. Read the AIB.
 
NewYorkophile said:
Did you just imply that since we don't release privileged SIB data, that it's a conspiracy to spend more government money?

SIB data includes potentially incriminating and sometimes very un-flattering information on the actions of the crew. If that information was released, they would be susceptible to public ridicule and potential prosecution in civil courts. The goal of the SIB is to release this sensitive information to USAF crews as soon as possible after the incident, so we can learn from it and avoid making the same mistakes. Quite literally, if any of our friends screws up, we get to watch the recreation, live audio, and sometimes live HD footage, of them dying. The public doesn't need to see that. Sure, there's some carry-over between airline and USAF flying sometimes, but a lot of times not. Do airliners need to be concerned about passing their mandatory climb points on night, IMC low level routes? Probably not.

It is designed to keep USAF crews safe in the air AND safe from civilian interference and prosecution. Note: as soon as someone runs their mouth about privileged SIB information, that information is no longer privileged, and it opens the aircrew up to potential prosecution. So if a USAF guy talks about the SIB, he's only f***ing over his teammates.

So no. You will not get it. Read the AIB.
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Use yer noggin', lad! No, I've implied just the opposite. There's a conspiracy to spend more money... That's why folks cover things up. If you think like a Kindergartener, it all makes sense. Remember in Kindergarten when you did something naughty? Yup, now you're with me... your first inclination was to NOT TELL anybody about your naughtiness. And when you got away with naughty... the naughtier you became.
 
I think the point is that those of us flying in the armed forces still make mistakes, just like our civilian brethren. That is just fact, and it always will be fact. There is a certain price attached to the attrition rate that is expected to be the result of operationally flying our aircraft. I don't disagree that the public should be aware of where their money is going. That said, is one to reasonably expect that there should be no military aviation accidents? That is what you are saying here......that the loss of any military/govt aircraft should be placed under a microscope for all to see. Do you honestly think that we are crashing aircraft and killing people due to being "naughty?" Do you really think that is the way that a professional military aviator, who has dedicated years/decades of his/her life to perfecting their tactical prowess, would operate an airplane with taxpayer dollars? There are extremely rare instances where people were being idiots, but 99.99% of the time, the folks I have known of to crash airplanes did so as the result of major and catastrophic mechanical failures, or by honest mistakes on the pilot error front.

I take it very very seriously, just like everyone I fly with does. Judging by your comments, I think you would be pretty shocked to see just how brutal we are with one another when someone makes even the most minor mistake on a flight. Because what we do is by nature quite dangerous, there is absolutely no excuse for poor performance, and anyone worth flying with will both listen as well as fix their mistakes next time. Those that don't are sent to ships and faraway places to not fly again. It is that simple. No covering up mistakes and getting "naughtier"......we crush those that are "naughty" and remove them from the cockpit.

I know that you are seeing this from a purely objective perspective, and to you it would appear that we have a really sweet deal going where we can just party in these awesome jets and throw them into the ocean/neighborhoods/junkyards and never hear about it again. The reality is that when a guy screws the pooch enough to die, a lot of times he/she takes someone else with them, and anytime someone makes a glaring error of flight discipline, the rest of our lives are at stake too.....at least those of us who are flying with or around them. As such, we all have a very vested interest in keeping ourselves honest, professional, and safe. And like I mentioned above, when someone is actually dangerous, they are shown the door very quickly.
 
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