Cirrus "Access to Flight" syllabus

jrh

Well-Known Member
After a 1.5 year break from instructing, I'm jumping back into the game next week.

I recently became a CSIP in order to train a client who will be flying start to finish, zero time through instrument rated, in an SR22. I believe we'll be using the "Access to Flight" integrated syllabus from Cirrus.

Has anyone else used this syllabus before? What did you think? Like it? Dislike it? Tips for using it?
 
Seriously, nobody? Not even an overused crack from the Cirrus haters about pulling a parachute? Ok, thanks anyway.
 
Congrats on getting your CISP? How involved is the process and how much does it cost? Now that you are a CISP, does your approach change on how you handle emergencies given CAPS versus no CAPS? Also where are you located? Does your client have their own plane or will this be a rental?

I like to do the transition training so trying to figure this out. Thanks.
 
How involved is the process and how much does it cost?

It's a three day long course at the company headquarters in Duluth, MN. I'm actually not sure how much it cost. I did it as part of a deal negotiated with the purchase of a new SR22 for one of our clients.

Now that you are a CISP, does your approach change on how you handle emergencies given CAPS versus no CAPS?

Yes. I've always been "open" to the idea of a chute deployment, but I'm a stronger believer in the system now. Before, I saw the chute as sort of a last resort when flying over mountains, low IFR, that sort of thing. Now, with an engine failure between 500 and 2000 AGL, unless there is literally a runway underneath me, I'll probably be pulling the chute immediately, regardless of conditions.

The thing I hadn't seen before, until CSIP training, was the forward speed and rate of descent with an SR22 in power off situations. The plane has a high wing loading and does not glide well at all. Touchdown speeds are close to twice as fast as say, a Cessna 172 or 182. If you recall physics class, that's *four* times the forward energy. Survivability under the chute is extremely high. Landing in a field at 75 knots is not necessarily a death wish, but there are too many ditches, fences, irrigation systems, trees, etc. out there to bet my life on it when I know there is a parachute sitting behind me, waiting to get used. Throw any kind of risk-increasing variables into the mix (uneven terrain, night, etc.) and I'd *definitely* be deploying the chute.

Cirrus is encouraging pilots of all experience levels to not hesitate in chute deployments, and after going through their training program, I agree.

Also where are you located?

Nebraska

Does your client have their own plane or will this be a rental?

They purchased it new from Cirrus.

I like to do the transition training so trying to figure this out. Thanks.

I had about 100 hours of time teaching in Cirri, doing instrument training and flight reviews, before becoming a CSIP. I felt like CSIP training really deepened my knowledge of Cirrus systems and how to correctly/safely train pilots over various emergency and abnormal scenarios. I'm also the only CSIP in my area, so it'll be almost guaranteed business with Cirrus owners in the future. I also did not have to pay for the training myself.

I don't know if the ROI would be worth it for you, but I'm certainly happy to have the credential.
 
Thanks for the reply.

Im sure you have new students that like to get into a cirrus to do their training so if you had a student working on their instrument, which airplane would you recommend given that after the instrument rating the student would like to travel cross country and build qulity time in type.
Would you recommend a Cessna Turbo 182T, Diamond DA40-XLS, SR20, SR22 Turbo - no specific mission just building time in type initially and then doing some decent cross country flying.

What are your thoughts with getting the Avdyine versus Perspective? Does the difference justify the 75K price difference?

Thanks.
 
Has anyone else used this syllabus before? What did you think? Like it? Dislike it? Tips for using it?


I have not, but chances are good I'll see a gentlemen tomorrow who runs a Cirrus school with half a dozen airplanes in our area. I'll run the question by him if I see him tomorrow and get back to you. Either way my advice would be to give a few cirrus schools a call to get a general idea of what they choose to use.


Before I go, one question. Is the f-16 approach speed really necessary in these things?
 
I have not, but chances are good I'll see a gentlemen tomorrow who runs a Cirrus school with half a dozen airplanes in our area. I'll run the question by him if I see him tomorrow and get back to you. Either way my advice would be to give a few cirrus schools a call to get a general idea of what they choose to use.


Before I go, one question. Is the f-16 approach speed really necessary in these things?
Unless traffic dictates, full forward speed till the last possible minute! In anything!
 
Seriously, nobody? Not even an overused crack from the Cirrus haters about pulling a parachute? Ok, thanks anyway.
I was going to knock CSIP, but I respect you too much. The pilot makes a program what it is, not the other way around...
 
Im sure you have new students that like to get into a cirrus to do their training so if you had a student working on their instrument, which airplane would you recommend given that after the instrument rating the student would like to travel cross country and build qulity time in type.
Would you recommend a Cessna Turbo 182T, Diamond DA40-XLS, SR20, SR22 Turbo - no specific mission just building time in type initially and then doing some decent cross country flying.

Well...no specific mission will result in no specific answer!

The Turbo 182T is going to be the easiest airplane for most people to transition into, especially if they have a background in flying Cessna 172s. It will make for a quick checkout and arguably the safest platform for a low time pilot to cruise around the country in. It's slower and significantly more stable, which is a plus for low time pilots in IMC. It will carry a larger payload, which might be a factor if the pilot wants to carry friends with them on their trips. It will be more tolerant of short runways and inadvertent icing encounters.

The Turbo SR22 is better at actually going places since it's significantly faster. It would also be better if the pilot's end goal is to own an SR22. I think it could also be considered safer than a Turbo 182 in some respects because of the parachute or FIKI certification, if equipped. When it comes to crossing mountains, I'd take an SR22 over a 182 any day because of the parachute and faster cruise speed which equals less time over the hostile terrain.

The SR20 is similar to the SR22, but cheaper and slower.

I don't know enough about the DA40 to comment on it.

What are your thoughts with getting the Avdyine versus Perspective? Does the difference justify the 75K price difference?

Yes, absolutely. The Perspective package is hands down better by almost any metric.

From a design standpoint, the Perspective is better. There are more backups and fewer points of failure than Avidyne. A person needs to look at each system's schematic to understand how refined the Perspective is.

The maintenance costs on a Perspective are typically lower, as the Garmin components are more reliable. Avidyne had trouble with screens failing, which could end up being a $30,000 repair.

Generally, the Perspective package is more powerful as well. It can display more weather products with greater detail, display more navigation data, integrate with more addons like the Enhanced Vision System camera, and so on.

Because of these differences, I believe Perspective-based aircraft will retain their values better than Avidyne-based. If a pilot buys a Perspective for $450k now and sells it in five years for $375k, or buys an Avidyne for $350k now and sells it in five years for $250k, they're coming out $25k ahead on on the Perspective ($75k lost versus $100k lost).
 
Before I go, one question. Is the f-16 approach speed really necessary in these things?

I'm not sure what you consider an F-16 approach speed.

On a regular VFR traffic pattern, 100 KIAS on downwind, 90 KIAS on base, and 80-90 KIAS on final works well. Crossing the fence at anything slower than 80 KIAS, especially at max gross weight, can get a little tricky. Vs0 is technically 62 KIAS, but the plane develops a relatively high sink rate on the "backside" of the L/D curve, somewhere in the high-70s KIAS. Short field approaches are flown at 77 KIAS with power on.
 
Yes. I've always been "open" to the idea of a chute deployment, but I'm a stronger believer in the system now. Before, I saw the chute as sort of a last resort when flying over mountains, low IFR, that sort of thing. Now, with an engine failure between 500 and 2000 AGL, unless there is literally a runway underneath me, I'll probably be pulling the chute immediately, regardless of conditions.

The POH says you lose like 1800 ft during deployment. I wouldn't try pulling it that low.
 
The POH says you lose like 1800 ft during deployment. I wouldn't try pulling it that low.
It actually is advertised to lose 400ft "normally" and 900ft during a spin. It has been pulled as low as 200ft and people walked away.

also interesting to note that of all the chute pulls within the design parameters (greater than 400ft agl below 133kias) there has been 0 fatalities
 
The POH says you lose like 1800 ft during deployment. I wouldn't try pulling it that low.

Which page of the POH did you find the 1800 foot number on? I've never seen it. From everything I've seen, Jgreen318 is right on the mark with his information.

Maybe you're thinking of an older Cirrus? I have no experience with them prior to the G3 generation.
 
The POH I had was from a G2. It was a 2005 model. I found an online copy of the G3 and I see what Jgreen318 is talking about. I could be mistaken. It's been a while since I read it.
 
After a thousand hours in each of the Perspective and Avidyne, I will never recommend the Avidyne to any perspective buyer. The perspective is a great system. With the known icing, the Cirrus is a great airplane as well even though you can buy yourself a used turbine, pressurized aircraft for the same price as a new Cirrus.

Its also interesting to me, that more and more people are liking the chute. Look at a thread when Cirrus announced the chute, and everyone was against it. Now its about 50/50. After having an engine failure at night in a Cessna, I get nervous flying at night in a single. The chute sure helps...

As far as a syllabus, I just made up my own as a CSIP. All my Cirrus customers (three) I had all moved to bigger planes. So my CSIP expires this month after being a CSIP for 5 years.
 
The POH I had was from a G2. It was a 2005 model. I found an online copy of the G3 and I see what Jgreen318 is talking about. I could be mistaken. It's been a while since I read it.

G2 is still 400 feet, although it took Cirrus a while to come up with that # from what I remember.
 
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