CFI Renewal - Gold Seal

MajorTom

Well-Known Member
For the gold seal I understand you must have a 8 out of 10 first time past. My question is I endorsed students to retake check rides after they failed, but I was not the instructor who signed the original endorsement that they failed on. I wanted to know that because these are "first time" endorsements for me and is not the fist time the student took the check ride, does this count as first time pass?

I assume know but I could not find anything that supports this assumption. The FAA doesn't really define first time.
 
I am pretty sure that, in the above case, that yes, it would count as a first time pass, since you did not sign them off for their first fail.

Just call your FSDO, they can look up your stats based on your CFI #, and tell you if you qualify for the Gold Seal.
 
I am pretty sure that, in the above case, that yes, it would count as a first time pass, since you did not sign them off for their first fail.

Just call your FSDO, they can look up your stats based on your CFI #, and tell you if you qualify for the Gold Seal.

Thanks I will call the FSDO and see if they say I qualify.
 
For the gold seal I understand you must have a 8 out of 10 first time past. My question is I endorsed students to retake check rides after they failed, but I was not the instructor who signed the original endorsement that they failed on. I wanted to know that because these are "first time" endorsements for me and is not the fist time the student took the check ride, does this count as first time pass?

I assume know but I could not find anything that supports this assumption. The FAA doesn't really define first time.


Let me know what the FSDO says. I've had one like that. I remember trying to ask around right afterwards. Got 3 different answers from the same FSDO office. Someone during that time tried to tell me that it wouldn't count for or against my record, then another one said something completely different. I'd be interested to hear what they say.
 
talking directly to the FSDO is never a bad idea, but the verbiage in the FARs is black and white.

(i) A record of training students showing that, during the preceding 24 calendar months, the flight instructor has endorsed at least 5 students for a practical test for a certificate or rating and at least 80 percent of those students passed that test on the first attempt.
(3) within the past 24 months has accom-
plished one of the following:
(a) trained and recommended for
certification at least 10 applicants for certificates or
ratings; 80 percent of these applicants must have
passed the flight test on their first attempt;

The word "their", as in "case closed".
 
"Their first attempt" means the first attempt following that instructor's signoff. In other words, if a student fails after being endorsed by Joe and he is then endorsed by Bob, the retake is the student's first attempt after being endorsed by Bob. At least that's how every FSDO I have dealt with has applied the rule. In any case, an FAA inspector will review your file and determine whether you qualify.
 
Just call your FSDO, they can look up your stats based on your CFI #, and tell you if you qualify for the Gold Seal.

That is good thinking, but not 100% accurate. The data that is available only includes check rides that were recorded properly when the paper went through the FSDO. There are a lot of checks that just get passed on to Oklahoma City without being entered in the database. The records are legal documents and would be there if ever needed (and you can get a copy of your own records at any time), but the database is a different subject. Also, I would take a wild guess that very few inspectors would know how to query that data.

But you're right, going to the FSDO for the answer is the right approach. The CFI should just bring a list of their recommendations and results, lay it out for the inspector and go from there.
 
talking directly to the FSDO is never a bad idea, but the verbiage in the FARs is black and white.

The word "their", as in "case closed".

I'm working without a set of books, so forgive me if I'm off track. However, I believe the regulation you are quoting is for the renewal of a CFI, not for the issuance of a Gold Seal instructor certificate.
 
I'm working without a set of books, so forgive me if I'm off track. However, I believe the regulation you are quoting is for the renewal of a CFI, not for the issuance of a Gold Seal instructor certificate.

The first part of quote was information taken from CFR61 in regards to regular CFI renewal.
The second part was in regard to the issuance of the gold seal, taken from, FAA Order 8900.1.

 
The first part of quote was information taken from CFR61 in regards to regular CFI renewal.
The second part was in regard to the issuance of the gold seal, taken from, FAA Order 8900.1.
Thanks. I didn't see it as being two different parts. I suspected the 8900.1 followed the same words as 14 CFR 61 because that used to be the standard for renewal on activity.
 
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