Climb clearance with restriction on SID

Still have to comply?

  • Yes, meet restriction.

    Votes: 5 26.3%

  • No, restriction canceled with new altitude assignment by departure.

    Votes: 14 73.7%
  • Total voters
    19
Bernoulli Fan

Bernoulli Fan

Controller
Scenario: You are cleared via a SID with an "at or above" restriction printed at a fix along the route. Your tower-issued initial altitude is below that restriction. When you check in with departure, the controller issues a climb clearance to an altitude above the restriction.

Would you still expect to have to comply with the restriction? Don't go look it up; I'm trying to get a sense of what pilots can be expected to do real world, not the book answer.
 
Well in the ATP written practice I just did it said to continue climb on route unless otherwise advised.
 
I'm pretty sure the controller knows whats on the SID, and theres a reason he's having me do something different, so im just going to do what i was cleared to do.
 
They're changing the 7110 in August for this.

"Climb via XXXX departure, maintain XX thousand" will be the new way to issue a climb with restrictions.

"Climb and maintain XX thousand" = climb unrestricted.
 
If I need to make sure you're going to climb/descend via a certain STAR/SID I would make sure that was communicated, if I want you to maintain a certain altitude, I want you there for a reason, other wise why wouldn't I just say:

"Descend via the MOOSE1 arrival"
 
The question is confusing because if I'm assigned an altitude above the restriction then I'm already complying. If the question is if you are assigned an altitude below the restriction are you expected to adhere to the published altitude in which case I would say no because ATC knows what they're doing. Can anyone provide an example of when OP's question would be pertinent?
 
matthew said:
The question is confusing because if I'm assigned an altitude above the restriction then I'm already complying. If the question is if you are assigned an altitude below the restriction are you expected to adhere to the published altitude in which case I would say no because ATC knows what they're doing. Can anyone provide an example of when OP's question would be pertinent?
Click to expand...

The SID in your clearance has ABCDE, cross at or above 6,000. On departure, the tower issues you 5,000. You check in with departure, 8 miles from ABCDE and you are instructed to climb to 10,000. Given the sequence of clearances - are you required to cross ABCDE at or above 6,000?

I believe that is what the OP is asking. And I too, am very curious in regards to the responses...
 
TripSix said:
The SID in your clearance has ABCDE, cross at or above 6,000. On departure, the tower issues you 5,000. You check in with departure, 8 miles from ABCDE and you are instructed to climb to 10,000. Given the sequence of clearances - are you required to cross ABCDE at or above 6,000?

I believe that is what the OP is asking. And I too, am very curious in regards to the responses...
Click to expand...

Obviously I'm not an American controller, but I, going to get out on a crazy tangent here and use common sense.

If I issue you a climb clearance, I expect you to climb at your aircrafts normal performance to the assigned altitude, same as any other time. If I need you to comply to something in my opinion it's up to me to remove any ambiguity from the clearance.
 
canadian_atc said:
Obviously I'm not an American controller, but I, going to get out on a crazy tangent here and use common sense.

If I issue you a climb clearance, I expect you to climb at your aircrafts normal performance to the assigned altitude, same as any other time. If I need you to comply to something in my opinion it's up to me to remove any ambiguity from the clearance.
Click to expand...

What we (the controllers) are intending/expecting I don't think was the question. I believe the question was what the pilot thought process is in this given example.

A pilot was confused, so I just gave that example to help clarify what was being asked.
 
A good example of this is departing southbound out of Newark, which receiving your clearance sometimes they'll tell you to maintain 2500, but the SID says maintain 5000. This is due to the La Guardia arrivals coming down by the Hudson River as the controller explained to me.
 
I would comply thinking the controller has me at the altitude for a reason. He does have Minimum Vectoring Altitudes, but it's still my responsibility to know the terrain pertaining to my flight.
 
Fly the assigned altitude. If you're concerned about not meeting an "at or above" restriction due to the climb performance of your aircraft, simply inform the controller. If it's a problem you'll get an amended clearance but I'd expect a "Cessna XXX, Roger" and continue on your way.
 
Bernoulli Fan said:
Would you still expect to have to comply with the restriction? Don't go look it up; I'm trying to get a sense of what pilots can be expected to do real world, not the book answer.
Click to expand...

Haven't looked it up, but would go to the assigned altitude and ignore crossing restrictions on the SID.

If that's not right or expected, I assume I'd be told otherwise soon enough.
 
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