Spin Training

felixk

felixk

Well-Known Member
Hi,

I'm having a real difficult time finding someone to give me spin training in the North NJ/NYC area. I call flight schools and they give me the "You are better off contacting someone with a decathlon or other aerobatic plane." Which is fine if these people would actually call me back, but they don't. Is the aviation teaching industry in such good shape that they don't need new clients?

Anyway, can anyone suggest an instructor or flight school that can give me the training in the Northern NJ or NYC/Long Island Area.

Thanks
Felix
 
Having the same issue in the OMA area... It seems no FBO's will do it with their a/c anymore. Going off to a 10 day CFI course and they'll do it with me there.
 
Yea it's quite ridiculous. I even reached out to some places that specifically teach aerobatics, and they don't return my phone calls. So frustrating.
 
felixk said:
Yea it's quite ridiculous. I even reached out to some places that specifically teach aerobatics, and they don't return my phone calls. So frustrating.
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Finding a CFI willing to do it isn't that hard. Finding an aircraft to do it in is probably going to be more difficult. I couldn't find a local FBO willing to do spin training, but fortunately know some people that know some people...
 
I'm pretty sure I don't have 20,000...

felixk said:
Hi,

I'm having a real difficult time finding someone to give me spin training in the North NJ/NYC area. I call flight schools and they give me the "You are better off contacting someone with a decathlon or other aerobatic plane." Which is fine if these people would actually call me back, but they don't. Is the aviation teaching industry in such good shape that they don't need new clients?

Anyway, can anyone suggest an instructor or flight school that can give me the training in the Northern NJ or NYC/Long Island Area.

Thanks
Felix
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Here you go. Have a look through this list: http://www.iacusn.org/schools/index.php
 
ryanmickG said:
Meh, the first million time I did them they were fun, now I avoid doing them at all cost.
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I'm with you on that. It's a fun event if all goes well, but who can guarantee that the airplane or glider you're in on that particular flight is rigged correctly.

AD 2009-10-09R2 is a good example of what you don't know can hurt you.
 
I had a rudder out of rig and lost about 6000'. Recovered less than 1000' AGL when the density altitude got low enough for my rudder to become effective. I thought I was a goner.
 
Houston said:
I'm with you on that. It's a fun event if all goes well, but who can guarantee that the airplane or glider you're in on that particular flight is rigged correctly.

AD 2009-10-09R2 is a good example of what you don't know can hurt you.
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Uggggh, dont get me started on stupid Cessna rudder stop AD's.... steam will come out of my ears. Such poorly executed and idiotic AD's. They "Fixed" a problem that doesn't exist and in doing so created an actual problem.
 
Houston said:
I'm with you on that. It's a fun event if all goes well, but who can guarantee that the airplane or glider you're in on that particular flight is rigged correctly.

AD 2009-10-09R2 is a good example of what you don't know can hurt you.
Click to expand...

That's like saying "I'm not going to fly aerobatics because the prop governor might fail, or the spar or rib might be cracked or a control surface might jam, or my 'chute might not open, or.... or...." Lots of things can happen and that's what a good preflight and MX is for.

An out-of-rug rudder can usually be detected while trying to fly straight & level. Sometimes its just the tailwheel acting as a trim tab because it's stuck to one side. Things you look for before you go spinning an airplane all willy nilly.
 
TwoTwoLeft said:
That's like saying "I'm not going to fly aerobatics because the prop governor might fail, or the spar or rib might be cracked or a control surface might jam, or my 'chute might not open, or.... or...." Lots of things can happen and that's what a good preflight and MX is for.

An out-of-rug rudder can usually be detected while trying to fly straight & level. Sometimes its just the tailwheel acting as a trim tab because it's stuck to one side. Things you look for before you go spinning an airplane all willy nilly.
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The one he's referring to is a little different though. The FAA issued an AD on the rudder stops because supposedly at full deflection they could jam (this is the part that was total BS... but I wont go there unless someone wants to), so Cessna made this big fat chunk of metal you rivet on to each rudder horn to prevent them from jamming (literally $5 worth of metal at the low low price of $180....not that I'm bitter or anything). Well, by installing these big pieces of crap, if you dont think it through a little bit you can actually decrease the possible rudder throw in both directions because the stops hit sooner.... nice..... so then they issue another AD that says you should file a grove into the friggin rudder horns, so that their big wad of metal doesn't hit the stops sooo soon, it's like the Beverly Hillbillies were put on Engineering duty for the whole ordeal.

The silly thing is, you could have an aircraft without the original AD complied with that is placarded against spins and it would actually be more responsive in yaw than those that are 'spin legal'.... idiotic.
 
ryanmickG said:
I had a rudder out of rig and lost about 6000'. Recovered less than 1000' AGL when the density altitude got low enough for my rudder to become effective. I thought I was a goner.
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I know of one fellow who ended up in a 14 turn spin on something like that. He thought the same thing.

Then I remember circa 1980 when an FAA inspector and a DPE spun a PA-38 only to find it was unrecoverable. After exhausting every option they unbuckled their seat belts and shifted their weight as far forward as possible, which yielded a recovery about 500' AGL.
 
rframe said:
The one he's referring to is a little different though. The FAA issued an AD on the rudder stops because supposedly at full deflection they could jam (this is the part that was total BS... but I wont go there unless someone wants to), so Cessna made this big fat chunk of metal you rivet on to each rudder horn to prevent them from jamming (literally $5 worth of metal at the low low price of $180....not that I'm bitter or anything). Well, by installing these big pieces of crap, if you dont think it through a little bit you can actually decrease the possible rudder throw in both directions because the stops hit sooner.... nice..... so then they issue another AD that says you should file a grove into the friggin rudder horns, so that their big wad of metal doesn't hit the stops sooo soon, it's like the Beverly Hillbillies were put on Engineering duty for the whole ordeal.

The silly thing is, you could have an aircraft without the original AD complied with that is placarded against spins and it would actually be more responsive in yaw than those that are 'spin legal'.... idiotic.
Click to expand...

Oh yeah, I know about that one. Our school has 4 150's and a 152 and the owner chose to the AD to all of them. He thought it would be weird to have a slight school specializing in spin training to have their fleet of 150s with "Intentional Spins Prohibited" placarded on them...
 
Houston said:
I know of one fellow who ended up in a 14 turn spin on something like that. He thought the same thing.

Then I remember circa 1980 when an FAA inspector and a DPE spun a PA-38 only to find it was unrecoverable. After exhausting every option they unbuckled their seat belts and shifted their weight as far forward as possible, which yielded a recovery about 500' AGL.
Click to expand...

I think that one was due to the worn plastic collar around the control yoke tube shifting sideways when it was pulled full aft. When you pushed it forward, it locked in place.
 
rframe said:
The one he's referring to is a little different though. The FAA issued an AD on the rudder stops because supposedly at full deflection they could jam (this is the part that was total BS... but I wont go there unless someone wants to), so Cessna made this big fat chunk of metal you rivet on to each rudder horn to prevent them from jamming (literally $5 worth of metal at the low low price of $180....not that I'm bitter or anything). Well, by installing these big pieces of crap, if you dont think it through a little bit you can actually decrease the possible rudder throw in both directions because the stops hit sooner.... nice..... so then they issue another AD that says you should file a grove into the friggin rudder horns, so that their big wad of metal doesn't hit the stops sooo soon, it's like the Beverly Hillbillies were put on Engineering duty for the whole ordeal.

The silly thing is, you could have an aircraft without the original AD complied with that is placarded against spins and it would actually be more responsive in yaw than those that are 'spin legal'.... idiotic.
Click to expand...
I favor the placard compliance method.

If you get time though, I'd like to read your more extended thoughts on the cause of the AD.
 
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