Question on crossing a fix on an arrival

[MikeD]

I can't say off the top of my head. I don't remember ever seeing the "turbojet VNAV.." blurb on Jepp plates though.

Why would it be a problem when NORDO? If I found myself flying that procedure NORDO, I'd treat it as a crossing restriction. At least ATC would have some idea how my descent is going to be executed.

But aren't you down at 6000? Or was that just an example in your previous post? Or are we even still talking 172s and STARS anymore here?

 

[Chief Captain]

If I'm in a 172 at filed 6000, I'm staying there. Obviously not going to climb.

If I'm in a 727, I'll plan my descent to cross WORPP at 10,000ft and 250kt.

 

[TripSix]

Why would it be a problem when NORDO? If I found myself flying that procedure NORDO, I'd treat it as a crossing restriction. At least ATC would have some idea how my descent is going to be executed.

If it has the turbojet vnav planning blurb on it, and and a NORDO 172 climbed to that altitude, it would be a "where'd who go????" type of moment for us. Whereas, if a turbojet went NORDO we'd expect either a climb or a descent to that altitude at that fix.

 

[Chief Captain]

Whereas, if a turbojet went NORDO we'd expect either a climb or a descent to that altitude at that fix.

Very interesting. That's certainly counter-intuitive, since when we're filed low, we're not normally told to climb to an "expect" altitude. Is that the way you're trained at your facility?

From the cockpit, without a radio, we try to keep everything going as normally as possible. In the example of the CYY6, after WORPP, I'd consider a 120 heading to join the RW09 LOC.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

I would think the STAR would be notated with something like "For turbojet/turbprop use only", or something to that effect.

Props - EXPECT and FILE the WHATEVER FOUR arrival...

 

[TripSix]

Very interesting. That's certainly counter-intuitive, since when we're filed low, we're not normally told to climb to an "expect" altitude. Is that the way you're trained at your facility?

From the cockpit, without a radio, we try to keep everything going as normally as possible. In the example of the CYY6, after WORPP, I'd consider a 120 heading to join the RW09 LOC.

We don't have STARS with that verbiage, so no - we aren't trained that way because it is not applicable. It was more of a "what if..." thing I was curious about.

I've seen some pretty crazy NORDO actions, so I'm always up for the "what would you do?" Type conversations...