Clean aircraft concept?

jhugz said:
Dry snow, not adhering, don't see an issue, though I'm apparently a dangerous cowboy.
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Not adhering? Really? Did you not see all the white powdery stuff on the top of the wing during the climb out? Here's a hint... it ain't cocaine.
 
Gee. Wonder why that ATR crashed in Russia a few weeks ago. Just taking a guess..
Having flown with Russian crews in Russian aircraft this video does not surprise me. Performance planning? If it takes off you have the performance. If it doesn't... oh well. Not your day ( or the day of your passengers).
 
Blackhawk said:
Having flown with Russian crews in Russian aircraft this video does not surprise me. Performance planning? If it takes off you have the performance. If it doesn't... oh well. Not your day ( or the day of your passengers).
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Any idea why that is? What is it about Russia culture that makes them cowboys relative to us?

For instance, a lot of the scary things Asian student pilots do can be traced to their respect for authority and desire to save face at all costs. What causes Russians to do these types of things?
 
jhugz said:
Dry snow, not adhering, don't see an issue, though I'm apparently a dangerous cowboy.
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I simply can't understand why you would bet your life, or the life of others, on the chance that the dry snow will most likely blow off. Maybe I am missing something here. Or maybe you are the invincible Clint Eastwood of the aviation world?
 
Houston said:
I have never been in that sort of environment, but I have been told that in Alaska the standard is that the wing is clean by 80 Knots or abort. Perhaps someone who has experience in that environment could elaborate.
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Naturally, my shop abides by all FAA and manufacturer rules, limitations, and recommendations regarding "clean wing" and both ground and flight icing conditions. HOWEVER I've heard some stories from both the "good old days" and other parts of the state and it would not surprise me if what you heard was true.

What IS interesting about this video is that it sort of points to how far from the edge 121 in the US operates. I mean I see Alaska get hosed down pretty much any time it's below freezing here at the Home 'Drome. Not that operating far from the edge is a bad thing. That's in large part why 121 has the safety record it does these days.
 
vheissu said:
I simply can't understand why you would bet your life, or the life of others, on the chance that the dry snow will most likely blow off. Maybe I am missing something here. Or maybe you are the invincible Clint Eastwood of the aviation world?
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Weeeell 135 does give pretty specific procedures for use in possible ground icing conditions and if huggles is doing his Pre Takeoff Contamination Check within 5 minutes before takeoff and verifying that an engine rev-up blows off anything that's fallen in those 5 minutes or however it is that his OpSpec is written I don't see any reason why what he's doing would be DANGEROUS.
 
Roger Roger said:
Naturally, my shop abides by all FAA and manufacturer rules, limitations, and recommendations regarding "clean wing" and both ground and flight icing conditions. HOWEVER I've heard some stories from both the "good old days" and other parts of the state and it would not surprise me if what you heard was true.

What IS interesting about this video is that it sort of points to how far from the edge 121 in the US operates. I mean I see Alaska get hosed down pretty much any time it's below freezing here at the Home 'Drome. Not that operating far from the edge is a bad thing. That's in large part why 121 has the safety record it does these days.
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I think you definitely hit the nail on the head in all respects.
 
jrh said:
Any idea why that is? What is it about Russia culture that makes them cowboys relative to us?

For instance, a lot of the scary things Asian student pilots do can be traced to their respect for authority and desire to save face at all costs. What causes Russians to do these types of things?
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I have no idea. They were some good guys- but they were just different from us. I don't know if it was caused by the Soviet system or was a product of some other cultural aspect. I suspect the former. I think we have a culture where we try to learn from our mistakes. For all of its faults our NTSB/FAA system does a pretty good job of evaluating accident factors and applying the lessons learned.
 
Roger Roger said:
Weeeell 135 does give pretty specific procedures for use in possible ground icing conditions and if huggles is doing his Pre Takeoff Contamination Check within 5 minutes before takeoff and verifying that an engine rev-up blows off anything that's fallen in those 5 minutes or however it is that his OpSpec is written I don't see any reason why what he's doing would be DANGEROUS.
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Which ops spec would that be? :p
 
Swept wings, LEDs, what transport jet has ever had an accident due to ice on the wings with that combination?
 
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