Helicopter burns up at KGEU

MikeD

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
An R22 that appears to have happened while undergoing MX outside a hangar. No injuries. One thing this highlights for me is that I know KGEU, for the type and amount of air traffic it gets, has no ARFF/CFR services or vehicles. Nearest fire station is 4.5 miles away and is a standard structural station with normal structural trucks, as the Glendale Fire Dept does not have specialized ARFF/CFR rigs. Somewhat surprising considering the airport does get corporate jet traffic, with it being one of two civil airports in the west valley so capable. Then again, KDVT (owned by the City of Phoenix) located on the north side of the metro Phoenix valley also doesn't have any specialized ARFF anymore (they used to have a Rescue truck based there), but their nearest fire station is 1 mile away, even though it too is only a structural station. Same with the other west valley civil field KGYR, although it too used to have an ARFF truck based on-field, but not anymore, and it gets heavy jet traffic going in and out for storage.

GLENDALE, Ariz. -- A helicopter caught fire at Glendale Municipal Airport Monday morning.

Crews were working on the helicopter outside when it caught fire at about 9 a.m.

Aerial video showed the helicopter between hangars on the west side of the airport.

Firefighters were able to put out the flames. A hazmat team was called to the scene because there was a significant amount of fuel on the ground.

No injuries have been reported.

The airport is still open.
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Story, photos and video here:

http://www.azfamily.com/news/Helicopter-catches-fire-at-Glendale-airport-140578513.html
 
Hey Mike, just curious: Other than a faster response time, what benefits would a dedicated ARFF rig have over a standard Type I structural engine responding from a nearby station? Back in my explorer days my Dept's Type I engine had a very small foam tank, but also had a foam nozzle attachment where it could be mixed in at the end of a standard 2.5" hose. I'm definitely a proponent of on-field ARFF (I think it would be hard to find a pilot who wasn't) but just curious about the differences in capability and equipment compared to a station that staffs Type I (structural)/Type III (wildland) engines, and how it might have helped in this case?
 
inigo88 said:
Hey Mike, just curious: Other than a faster response time, what benefits would a dedicated ARFF rig have over a standard Type I structural engine responding from a nearby station? Back in my explorer days my Dept's Type I engine had a very small foam tank, but also had a foam nozzle attachment where it could be mixed in at the end of a standard 2.5" hose. I'm definitely a proponent of on-field ARFF (I think it would be hard to find a pilot who wasn't) but just curious about the differences in capability and equipment compared to a station that staffs Type I (structural)/Type III (wildland) engines, and how it might have helped in this case?
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Training mainly, both fighting aircraft fires as well as aircraft familiarization overall. Equipment secondarily. Ability to fight fire from in-cab thirdly (desired, but not required, IMHO). Structural guys don't generally get any in-depth training on things such as aircraft fam.....everything from basic operations to safety zones to hazards to fire suppression to exits and extrication. Unfortunately, an aircraft can't be treated like a large car fire or vehicle incident, even though in some ways once an aircraft crashes, it becomes more or less a structural fire.

But things like knowing the basics of securing an aircraft that might be running, knowing where to cut into a fuselage and why [reference the Mercer 901 DC-6 crash, KBUR/KVNY, 1976], for military aircraft....knowing the danger areas of explosive-charged canopies and seats as well as ordnance; for large aircraft, knowing and understanding how exits and slides work....both for getting in, as well as knowing what to expect from the cabin crew inside. The list goes on.

Equipment-wise, there are many ARFF units now that use structural bunkers, but I still believe in proximity gear and still supply my trucks with it on our ARFF contracts. Large Class B fuel fires.....the yearly burns and aircraft training that ARFF guys get.....aren't something the average structure guy keeps current on. Vehicle-wise, though Type 1 engines (since you understand NWCG typings, obviously :) ) come in all types, many don't have or are too heavy for any kind of off-airport or off-airfield response. A Type 3 engine could solve that problem, as many of those are 4x4, but you run into suppression equipment issues: Most Type 3s are wildland primarily or wildland/structural, so like Type 1s, they won't be carrying things like Purple K dry chemical stocks (bottles or a heavier system) specific to heavy Class B fuel fires, or MetL-X or Copper Powder extinguishers specific to Class D metal fires, or even Class B foam for that matter. While some Type 1 engines carry both Class A and B foam, many only carry Class A, vice the B (AFFF or protein) needed for fuel fires. Nearly all Type 3 engines only carry A foam as thats what the use for wildland and structural protection. Any of these engines can employ a foam handline either from an around-the-pump type system, or a nozzle-eductor like you mention, though the latter takes a little bit of time to setup.

I run what are essentially Type 6x rigs. Has a standard basic firefighting and medical package, but I then equip it based on the contract its going to be doing. Things get loaded or come off depending if it's doing a wildland assignment, an ARFF assignment, or it's racetrack contract. ARFF-wise, it only covers helipads or helibase ops due to it's smaller size, or maybe a SEAT base; or can work light GA airport ops.

So to your original question, can a regular structural engine do the job overall? It can in a basic sense.....it's better than nothing. There's just limitations that come into play for any kind of special needs of an aircraft event, special events relating to that event, or specialized training inherent to that event.
 
Apparently you haven't seen the video of Montoya's crash in last night's Daytona 500 Mike. If you did, you wouldn't be posting about a helo fire...
 
As usual, awesome and educational Mike! I could see the training alone making a huge difference. Also I knew you did contract ARFF/track stuff, but I didn't realize you had your own Type 6. Badass. :)
 
The Fez said:
Apparently you haven't seen the video of Montoya's crash in last night's Daytona 500 Mike. If you did, you wouldn't be posting about a helo fire...
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Just saw the pics of it. Nice mass Class B fire going there. Kind of wonder why they were staged and attacking it from downhill though....

inigo88 said:
As usual, awesome and educational Mike! I could see the training alone making a huge difference. Also I knew you did contract ARFF/track stuff, but I didn't realize you had your own Type 6. Badass. :)
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Yeah, have the full truck and equipment for the contract(s). A former Phoenix, AZ FD truck, 6x fire truck, '89 Dodge turbo diesel. Good strong rig.
 
KSCessnaDriver said:
How you going to get up a 31 degree banking?
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If at all possible, you want to be uphill/upwind, stage further forward/aft on the downhill side if you have to be there; approaching from behind it at all possible. They did a good job, don't get me wrong, they got it out quickly. Am just curious of some debrief-type items that we all do after an accident/incident we handle at the track.
 
MikeD said:
If at all possible, you want to be uphill/upwind, stage further forward/aft on the downhill side if you have to be there; approaching from behind it at all possible. They did a good job, don't get me wrong, they got it out quickly. Am just curious of some debrief-type items that we all do after an accident/incident we handle at the track.
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I don't doubt that one bit. I was just saying that you aren't going to climb that track very well and driving around to the outside of the track would take forever. I'm shocked at how little damage there was to the track.
 
I did a majority of my training at GEU and never even thought of the fact that there was not emergency services on site. Guess I didn't realize it, will defiantly keep it in mind in the future.
 
KSCessnaDriver said:
I don't doubt that one bit. I was just saying that you aren't going to climb that track very well and driving around to the outside of the track would take forever. I'm shocked at how little damage there was to the track.
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Depends where they arrived from in terms of positioning. But positioning is key for safety as well as tactical ops. So depending where the individual trucks arrived from.......ie- if one was coming from one of the other turns and up from behind, staging behind the scene would've been good. I saw one truck behind the wall at the top, but wasn't able to acertain their effectiveness from the pics only.

Agree, I figure the track would've been damaged much more than it was. Good job overall. Much better than the Texas Motor Speedway fire crew did during Simona de Silvestro's fire in her Indy car a couple years ago.
 
MikeD said:
Agree, I figure the track would've been damaged much more than it was. Good job overall. Much better than the Texas Motor Speedway fire crew did during Simona de Silvestro's fire in her Indy car a couple years ago.
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Ugh what a joke that was. I still remember yelling at the TV, "get her the f out!!"
 
Champcar said:
Ugh what a joke that was. I still remember yelling at the TV, "get her the f out!!"
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Like anything and anywhere else, we use all these videos as debriefing and training tools; covering what was done right, wrong, or could've been done different. Not in a Monday morning QB way, but in a way to learn from what others have experienced.
 
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