Aeronautical experience

[cmill]

All of these types of jobs that I've seen now require 500+ in all the postings I've seen. For better or worse, that's the reason I'm trying to find out what people think of that 200-hour gap. :>

Now, I'll grant you that 300 TT isn't much, and 500 isn't much more in the grand scheme of things or in reference to a truly experienced pilot... but it's a period that every experienced pilot MUST pass through.

-Fox

You're right, it is a tough gap to fill, especially without being a CFI. I honestly don't know how to bridge that gap without instructing. Companies will hire with 300 hours, you just have to know somebody. You'd be surprised how far you can get by being an airport bum.

 

[🦈💜]

You're right, it is a tough gap to fill, especially without being a CFI. I honestly don't know how to bridge that gap without instructing. Companies will hire with 300 hours, you just have to know somebody. You'd be surprised how far you can get by being an airport bum.

By the way, just so we're all clear ... I'm coming up on 400 hours, and I have -no- problem instructing. I'm -very- much looking forward to it, though I admit I'm worried about giving students quality instruction. (I bring tailwheel flying and aerobatics to the table, but that's not a huge help when you're trying to instill pilot in command responsibility ... which is my biggest fear. I'm not sure how to handle someone who doesn't take flying as seriously as I do... though hopefully I'll figure it out before I need to. And I know that in reality, I know nothing... but I WOULD like to know more before I taught "in an ideal world")

-Fox

 

[cmill]

By the way, just so we're all clear ... I'm coming up on 400 hours, and I have -no- problem instructing. I'm -very- much looking forward to it, though I admit I'm worried about giving students quality instruction. (I bring tailwheel flying and aerobatics to the table, but that's not a huge help when you're trying to instill pilot in command responsibility ... which is my biggest fear. I'm not sure how to handle someone who doesn't take flying as seriously as I do... though hopefully I'll figure it out before I need to. And I know that in reality, I know nothing... but I WOULD like to know more before I taught "in an ideal world")

-Fox

I felt the same way when I started instructing, looking back I think it was justified. I really think at times I learned more than the students did. Once you get in the swing of things though, it becomes second nature. It sounds like you have the right attitude, so I'm sure you'll be just fine.

 

[z987k]

All of these types of jobs that I've seen now require 500+ in all the postings I've seen. For better or worse, that's the reason I'm trying to find out what people think of that 200-hour gap. :>

Now, I'll grant you that 300 TT isn't much, and 500 isn't much more in the grand scheme of things or in reference to a truly experienced pilot... but it's a period that every experienced pilot MUST pass through.

-Fox

The company I worked survey for would from time to time, walk down to the flight school portion, find someone with 190 or 250tt (maybe hadn't even passed their com check-ride yet) and offer them a job.... leave tomorrow. Quality low level pic in every type of terrain the country has to offer.
But if you didn't want to be gone for 8 months, it wasn't for you. The thing about aviation, is you have to want it enough to make sacrifices that might seem absurd to others.

 

[Qutch]

The company I worked survey for would from time to time, walk down to the flight school portion, find someone with 190 or 250tt (maybe hadn't even passed their com check-ride yet) and offer them a job.... leave tomorrow. Quality low level pic in every type of terrain the country has to offer.
But if you didn't want to be gone for 8 months, it wasn't for you. The thing about aviation, is you have to want it enough to make sacrifices that might seem absurd to others.

Great point.

I recall civilians telling me they would love to fly our jets, but couldn't stomach the sacrifice and restrictions of military life. I was struck by that comment. Ya know, I really had no idea what they were talking about.

I was flying, I was learning, I was surrounded by motivated people, I was traveling to new places, I was getting paid to do it.

What sacrifice? What restrictions? I guess it's all in your attitude.

.

 

[z987k]

Great point.

I recall civilians telling me they would love to fly our jets, but couldn't stomach the sacrifice and restrictions of military life. I was struck by that comment. Ya know, I really had no idea what they were talking about.

I was flying, I was learning, I was surrounded by motivated people, I was traveling to new places, I was getting paid to do it.

What sacrifice? What restrictions? I guess it's all in your attitude.

.

Yeah, I love the traveling and about every aspect of it. I usually chuckle a bit when I hear of low time pilots looking for jobs in X city. Lol. Good luck with that.

 

[JordanD]

But if you didn't want to be gone for 8 months, it wasn't for you. The thing about aviation, is you have to want it enough to make sacrifices that might seem absurd to others.

(Now that I'm not on my phone)
That's exactly the point I was getting at. I just don't think something like that is for me and when it seems like the other options get fewer and fewer it is a little disconcerting. When I worked line I saw some of those guys basically live in the fbo for months at a time. I have to hand it to them, that takes some dedication. But it just doesn't seem like it's for me.

As for freight, I'd love to do that for a while, but I've seen a lot of it disappear. Just two summers ago at the airport I fly out of there were probably 7 or 8 freight planes from one company, and maybe 2 or 3 AirNet planes. Now I honestly can't remember the last time I've seen either of them at that airport. A friend of mine who was flying checks saw his haul fall dramatically and very rapidly before it disappeared altogether. Honestly I'm lucky if I see one freight plane at that same airport these days. Maybe I'm not seeing the big picture, but from what I've seen a lot of that type of flying is shrinking.

I'm definitely not averse to instructing either, but I just don't see the numbers of people around the flight school I used to. Maybe it's the region and the economy. I've seen a lot of CFIs who just weren't drawing the business and had to get other full time jobs. I can think of one twin in the entire state off the top of my head, and I can't remember the last time I saw it move from its parking spot.

Man, you sound like 80% of the kids that come out of Embry Riddle with a silver spoon in their mouth, that think just because they have a certain degree, they should just have everything handed to them. So you might have to take a non-flying job, or a CFI job at a mega-school to get hours. Or find some niche job that you can slide into at low hours.

I think you're reading into my post wrong or I didn't get my point across clearly. The latter being a definite possibility. I never said I was owed anything. How does complaining about the fact that the avenues for time building don't seem as accessible as they might have once been mean that I have a silver spoon in my mouth? I think you were a little quick on the draw there to call me out for being something I'm not.

 

[ChasenSFO]

Gentlemen, gentlemen. Quite the misunderstanding of Jordan's post.

His concerns are legitimate. He isn't whining. Jordan is simply point out how local GA has gone down the toilet in his area, quite a large population area mind you, and he is concerned that this may be a trend. When I started flying out there, as he said, you saw freighters all over the place. Recently, I've only seen Air Cargo Carriers, all the mom&pop type companies and AirNet seem to have vanished from the region. It has been so rare to see any other traffic at any of the local airports in the past 2 years or so in the Louisville/Southern Indiana area, I can't remember the last time I was ever number 2 out there or issued a "hold short". He is just looking for a solution that doesn't involve relocation, but there doesn't seem to be one. "Become a CFI!". New students out there? Hardly ever.

Even out here in the Bay Area, tons of people learning to fly, but other than being a CFI, there is pretty much nothing. Even traffic watch has 500TT insurance minimums. Point is, it is a ridiculously hard gap to fill going from 250-500. No one really seems to acknowledge how scarce opportunities for pilots with wet commercials have become in just the last few years. I for one feel you shouldn't instruct for the wrong reasons. If the thought of teaching bores the crap out of you, what kind of an instructor are you going to be? What kind of pilots are you going to create with an apathetic approach where you just want to build time and bounce?

CFI is a good solution, and I plan to do it. But we shouldn't advise every person who asks this question "Shut up and get your CFI" when they make it clear they aren't interested. Think of every pilot you know that never was a CFI. I'm sure some of them are great pilots with great personalities. But are these mostly people you'd want to learn under, or do you think they chose a different path for good reason?

It is literally impossible for every new commercial pilot looking to get 1500 and an ATP to fly for the airlines to CFI, the supply would quadruple the demand at best. Yet it is the only answer I ever see.

 

[nocturnalaviator]

... But as far as I've seen, these places, too, want 500 hours... No?

-Fox

-- Sent from my Palm Pre3 using Forums

Depends where you go. I CFI'd for ATP for 3yrs after the 2nd the DPE I was using suggested aerial survey (he is the insurance check airman for us). At the time I had 600hrs tt. He wanted to see 1200. When at the time I had 1200 they weren't hiring. So I persevered CFI'ing and kept my nose to the grindstone. Finally after 1500hrs and an ATP they called me to re-interview. It's been 1.5yrs with the company and I really enjoy it. Flying C310, 421, Navajo, Aztec, and hopefully soon the conquest. All PIC single pilot (well minus the non-pilot operator/chart holder). I held out for what I wanted and was patient. Regionals aren't my cup of tea and I'm okay with that, there are other avenues in aviation I learned to enjoy. Hoping maybe one day to fly for NOAA or maybe L-3. Doors can open both in the cockpit and out. It's ashame there aren't many left who understand nothing comes for free. Unfortunately the ones who don't, don't appreciate the seat they're occupying. I could be wrong though just my own pessimistic attitude to those who have the silver spoon mentality.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

Sometimes I think we've created a generation of pilots who are in love with being pilots, but largely hate to fly.

I love actually flying the airplane, but I'll happily let the autopilot do high altitude straight and level. And when I'm tired it can either really help or really hurt you (wrong set up means that George will happily take you somewhere you don't intend to be, and at best you get "Air Carrier thirty one sixty five, whereyagoin?")

There is also a generation of pilots that flat don't know how to fly. The current PTS doesn't really develop positive aircraft control and all attitude flying. Airmanship, you might call it, is dead or dying. Watching basic attitude instrument flying (or lack thereof) is eye opening/terrifying depending on your point of view. Ironically some of the worst performance I have seen has come from CFI-Is in that department, but that's a cold beer topic. Situational awareness is also suffering with every new primary airplane I have seen having shiny avionics.

And there's a cultural problem of "rely on automation" too. It's true and prudent that you should use the highest level of automation that you are comfortable with, and that the situation calls for...but never, ever at the expense of situational awareness or your ability to fly. I was put into that flight deck because I am a pilot, not an automation manager.

Plus, hand flying is satisfying- more satisfying than spinning the knobs. I like my automation and I use it, but sometimes it does stupid things or can't handle a situation to my satisfaction. Or just can't handle a situation. Skill and judgment are still required, no matter how automated the engineers try to make it.


Sent from Seat 3D

 

[bunk22]

Hi Fox,



Back to your question. What needs to change is pilot training. The worlds militaries have been very successful in putting zero time pilots, and training them to the razors edge. This training needs to be duplicated in the civilian world, and yes, it was cost significantly more, but it would have significantly more oversight. Fortunately, (or unfortunately) the aircraft we fly now are so advanced that many poor pilots, slip through the cracks and never have the opportunity to prove their uselessness. This does not change the fact that training needs to improve across the board. As I type this, I see a banner below advertising a '90 Day Fast Track' - not to start a flame war, but it should take longer to become an airline pilot, that a hair stylist. I have read, and talked to a few lobbyist, and a solution that has been brought up is the 'National Civilian Pilot Academy' ALPA could, and should be a part of this, and make this program on par to a 'post graduate' program. This academy should be competitive entry, and free, intact the trainees should be paid. At this school, pilot are trained, and subsequent checked with through check-rides, that do not have fiscal motivation for an applicants pass or failure. I still believe that experience is key, and once this program is completed, the new commercial pilot, would be required to instruct, ferry aircraft, fly the academies leaders on time critical assignments, but with a significant oversight. There are a lot more facets of this, but think of a hybrid between our Militaries UPT, and JAA style FTO's.

I hope this will happen someday, but it probably will take even more accidents where lack of pilot experice is cited as a contributing factor, till things start to change.

Good luck instructing!

Cheers!

I think you have a good idea FlyPurdue as I'm one of the few military pilots on this site. But I think implementing this would be difficult. Civilian flight schools that taught the military way might have issues with having a student pay money, not meeting par and then getting booted out after spending an X amount of money. Hell, that's a concern with the military today, with the MPTS grading system, students get chance after chance to continue with the program. The idea is we don't want to attrite after spending an X amount of money. The attrition rate in flight school, at least for the Navy, is usually around 11-13% overall and that includes NPQ, DOR, poor performance, OLQ.

 

[bunk22]

Two things:

1. The quality of that 2500 hours is very high quality experience.

2. It depends.....2500 hours for a fighter guy? Likely. A transport guy.....more like 3 times that.

Agreed though in the Navy, 2500 hours for an E2/C2 guy is pretty good experience (you have the carrier, formation flying, no AFCS in the COD, always flying, etc). I will say that those large wing aviators in the Navy with experience flying various aircraft are more competent, IMO of course. A P-3/E-2 pilot who later becomes an IP in the T-34C or T-6B/T-45C now see's dynamic flying vice straight and level. Tactical aviators are able to think ahead of the aircraft quicker (on average) and are used to more dynamic regimes of flight. The whole getting 200 hours in a Cessna, then getting a jog flying straight and level for the next 1500 hours does not make for an experienced, seasoned pilot I don't think.

 

[n57flyguy]

I was very disappointed to find out that civilan aviation training wasn't that way. I'm still a little disappointed, to this day.

From everything I was told, growing up, military aviation is almost impossible to get into ... and I had too many little things working against me.

As near as I can tell, there isn't. I think ATP tries to foster that sort of environment ... but when I got my commercial multi with them, flying was just business there. Talking to one of the other students, at the time, I was shocked to find that he had no interest in aviation whatsoever, and was just there because his uncle had told him it was 'an easy job'.

If something like that came along, I'd be so excited that I'd probably drop everything and voluntarily surrender my airman certificate just to go through it all. :> Modern flight training is fairly half-hearted and very non-immersive, in my experience.

-Fox

As far as total immersion, a lot might depend where that student/customer was fostered into aviation, who their mentors were, and what experiences they had along the way. A lot of flight training seems to be get-your-license-move-on and leaves a lot of the culture and grassroots out of aviation. It seems odd to me, but when I started, you could not get me away from the FBO to the point where I ended up working there. I was able to get cool rides, learn from others perspective and experience, and apply others knowledge. Also, local flying communities like to root for guys coming through the ranks, whether they want to fly for a career, fly for recreation, build airplanes, etc. That is immersion in my opinion. Since I work in the environment, it is very easy for me to be involved and learn.

Now with that, is it a matter of passion and obsession? I have seen a few "wash out" as they just seemed to give up. What other factors went into it, I could not tell you. For some of us, its all we want to do and be around. For others it is just a job.

With 141 schools while it is just business, people have told me it is good for the "total immersion" where you eat breath drink and sleep what course you are particularly in with others. Same can apply to other flight training environments. People (like in your case) will go to just knock out a rating or two to get it for the immersion factor. I guess that just may be perspective. The students drive, mentors, environment, and experiences have something to do with drive and success in flight training.

Also, I have worked aviation summer camps as a counselor, and you could see the fire in a lot of those kids eyes. What is even cooler is when you see them at the airport watching planes, starting flight training, or flying RC after the camp is over. I wasn't able to help last year, but I will again this upcoming summer just for that alone.

By telling you that, could getting youth involved in positively in aviation also eventually bring better students, instructors, and commercial pilots into this industry? I think the answer is an obvious yes. My perspective of immersion in aviation isn't just for the ratings outright, but the big picture of positive mentoring and experiences which is our responsibility to create and foster as we move on. If that foundation is built, those with the spark will continue on and will immerse themselves.

 

[Qutch]

.
The Sourcing Culture / Aviation's Jeopardy game

Unlike MikeD, bunk22, AMG, Hacker, and the few other AF/Navy trained guys on the site, I never went on to operational or combat units after UPT. My entire experience is wrapped up in training, and from there I went on to military R&D labs working on new concepts (aviation psychology training applications mostly). When I raised the issue here earlier of the Total Immersion training environment, there was another aspect of that which I found to be an integral part of the military culture which is rarely recognized. The Sourcing Culture, which by design sucked everybody in to it, not just the hyper-motivated pilot. A cultural norm that most of us enjoyed, but one which might be seen as almost abusive, or as an abnormal behavior, among civilians.

At UPT I found myself humbled by IPs who could not only snap out the answer to every question, they regularly spouted the AF manual #, the Chapter, and sometimes even the page and column where the information could be found. It was normal behavior, a point of pride to be good at it, and no one thought twice about challenging a speaker to cite the source of his information. In my contacts with the civilian world I noticed that habit of reciting sources to be far less common, and somewhat unwelcome unless it occurs between 2 former AF/Navy aviators. This Mil practice was even fun, like the aviation version of the TV game show Jeopardy. Those of us who studied this type of subject in R&D noted that many civilian aviators when challenged to recite their source don't always appreciate the challenge, and will give far less precise answers, or will go hunt-up the book (tomorrow) to find the answer. Reciting Sources is not as strong of a cultural norm in the civilian world as it is in the military.

I'm not sure who at UPT or in AF/Navy aviation started this unwritten Source Citation game, but the value of reciting a precise Source (or at least standing ready to recite when challenged) brought added value to the Total Immersion training environment. It had a cleansing effect. Information from pilots who stood ready to recite their Source was more heavily weighted than information from pilots who might merely be expressing an opinion or were guessing. That was a little recognized but important part of the military's Total Immersion method when I was associated with UPT. It costs nothing and it's fun, but I'm not sure where a very highly motivated civilian student could duplicate that experience, surrounding himself with that type of intensity, and thereby accelerating the pace and quality of training. A lone civilian pilot can't duplicate it at his FBO or school because it takes many like-minded pilots to play the game. The Chinese do it. As I said earlier, I'm not that well versed in the selection of civilian schools in the US, so I don't know where a civilian could duplicate that experience.

.

 

[mat]

There's a company out in Bakersfield, CA who hires pipeline pilots with 250hrs. They'll even get you your tailwheel. They have great equipment (all new GCBC Citabrias) the weather is always good and it pays really well (for what it is). I knew several guys who flew for them. I did their tailwheel training. One logged almost 1400 hours in a year with them. Almost all of that was low level. Having all the LL time looks really good if you apply for a specialized survey job or crop duster. Not many have that much LL or tailwheel time.

http://www.kcsiaerialpatrol.com/index.php/careers ?

 

[Qutch]

http://www.kcsiaerialpatrol.com/index.php/careers ?

Way to go. "Source please"

Good demonstration. Exactly what I was talking about.

.

 

[TwoTwoLeft]

http://www.kcsiaerialpatrol.com/index.php/careers ?

Yeah, that's them. Apparently things have changed a bit. One thing I do know is that the guys I flew with who worked for them didn't have 500 hours...

 

[bunk22]

I would imagine there are serious/demanding flight schools/academy's out there in the civilian world. The military requires quite a bit from the basic flight student, in most cases a bachelor's degree via academy/NROTC/etc, then OCS/TBS, etc. Lots of money invested before you get there and then API, followed by $7 million dollar T-6B's and in the case of strike, $30 million dollar T-45C Goshawks. Once winged, carrier aviators go on to fly $50-$100 million dollar aircraft depending and use those aircraft in a tactical manner or back up the tactical mission. We have to put out a good product (though some horrible products slip through...not always monkey skill wise but attitude, knowledge, etc) in a limited amount of time. As a primary IP, I don't have time for a student to show up unprepared for the flight. I can't let a student continue if he/she is unable to meet the standards. One of my recent on wings was a civilian pilot who flew some sort of learjet in the civilian world. He had over 1000 hours and did well in primary flight training but once he hit formation flying and then beyond, hit a wall. He is almost winged but he says the training he did on the civilian side was nowhere near the equal of what he just went through. He's just one guy, maybe others with experience didn't have issues but the training is demanding with little time to learn and master the Navy way. But with the low attrition rate, we do a relatively good job at selection and training. My point to all of this is the need for this type of training is probably not required on the civilian side of the house and to implement some sort of military type training would be difficult to do as money is probably the deciding factor that gets a civilian pilot through on the outside. A military pilot is not naturally a better pilot than a GA pilot, it's the training that separates the two.

.
The Sourcing Culture / Aviation's Jeopardy game

Unlike MikeD, bunk22, AMG, Hacker, and the few other AF/Navy trained guys on the site, I never went on to operational or combat units after UPT. My entire experience is wrapped up in training, and from there I went on to military R&D labs working on new concepts (aviation psychology training applications mostly). When I raised the issue here earlier of the Total Immersion training environment, there was another aspect of that which I found to be an integral part of the military culture which is rarely recognized. The Sourcing Culture, which by design sucked everybody in to it, not just the hyper-motivated pilot. A cultural norm that most of us enjoyed, but one which might be seen as almost abusive, or as an abnormal behavior, among civilians.

At UPT I found myself humbled by IPs who could not only snap out the answer to every question, they regularly spouted the AF manual #, the Chapter, and sometimes even the page and column where the information could be found. It was normal behavior, a point of pride to be good at it, and no one thought twice about challenging a speaker to cite the source of his information. In my contacts with the civilian world I noticed that habit of reciting sources to be far less common, and somewhat unwelcome unless it occurs between 2 former AF/Navy aviators. This Mil practice was even fun, like the aviation version of the TV game show Jeopardy. Those of us who studied this type of subject in R&D noted that many civilian aviators when challenged to recite their source don't always appreciate the challenge, and will give far less precise answers, or will go hunt-up the book (tomorrow) to find the answer. Reciting Sources is not as strong of a cultural norm in the civilian world as it is in the military.

I'm not sure who at UPT or in AF/Navy aviation started this unwritten Source Citation game, but the value of reciting a precise Source (or at least standing ready to recite when challenged) brought added value to the Total Immersion training environment. It had a cleansing effect. Information from pilots who stood ready to recite their Source was more heavily weighted than information from pilots who might merely be expressing an opinion or were guessing. That was a little recognized but important part of the military's Total Immersion method when I was associated with UPT. It costs nothing and it's fun, but I'm not sure where a very highly motivated civilian student could duplicate that experience, surrounding himself with that type of intensity, and thereby accelerating the pace and quality of training. A lone civilian pilot can't duplicate it at his FBO or school because it takes many like-minded pilots to play the game. The Chinese do it. As I said earlier, I'm not that well versed in the selection of civilian schools in the US, so I don't know where a civilian could duplicate that experience.

.

 

[A150K]

(Now that I'm not on my phone)
That's exactly the point I was getting at. I just don't think something like that is for me and when it seems like the other options get fewer and fewer it is a little disconcerting. When I worked line I saw some of those guys basically live in the fbo for months at a time. I have to hand it to them, that takes some dedication. But it just doesn't seem like it's for me.

As for freight, I'd love to do that for a while, but I've seen a lot of it disappear. Just two summers ago at the airport I fly out of there were probably 7 or 8 freight planes from one company, and maybe 2 or 3 AirNet planes. Now I honestly can't remember the last time I've seen either of them at that airport. A friend of mine who was flying checks saw his haul fall dramatically and very rapidly before it disappeared altogether. Honestly I'm lucky if I see one freight plane at that same airport these days. Maybe I'm not seeing the big picture, but from what I've seen a lot of that type of flying is shrinking.

I'm definitely not averse to instructing either, but I just don't see the numbers of people around the flight school I used to. Maybe it's the region and the economy. I've seen a lot of CFIs who just weren't drawing the business and had to get other full time jobs. I can think of one twin in the entire state off the top of my head, and I can't remember the last time I saw it move from its parking spot.


I think you're reading into my post wrong or I didn't get my point across clearly. The latter being a definite possibility. I never said I was owed anything. How does complaining about the fact that the avenues for time building don't seem as accessible as they might have once been mean that I have a silver spoon in my mouth? I think you were a little quick on the draw there to call me out for being something I'm not.

High- hour CFI jobs are plentiful in AZ, FL, and other fair weather places. If you want to make a living as a CFI, you'll probably have to get out of the Midwest..If you eventually get your CFI, let me know-I may be able to help you get something here in NM. If you don't want to instruct (and please only do it if you want to, there are too many CFI's out there who just don't care), you should look into Banner Towing (alot of them hire people with less than 500). You'll learn tailwheel and get realllllly good at slow flight

 

[JordanD]

High- hour CFI jobs are plentiful in AZ, FL, and other fair weather places. If you want to make a living as a CFI, you'll probably have to get out of the Midwest..If you eventually get your CFI, let me know-I may be able to help you get something here in NM. If you don't want to instruct (and please only do it if you want to, there are too many CFI's out there who just don't care), you should look into Banner Towing (alot of them hire people with less than 500). You'll learn tailwheel and get realllllly good at slow flight

Banner towing is pretty scarce here with the exception of a few weeks out of the year. I wouldn't mind CFIing for a while, I'm just apprehensive about whether or not I'd be good at it. Instrument seems kind of fun, but right now the idea of teaching initial students sounds like someone saying to me "here, hold my newborn!" You're probably right about the Midwest thing though. GA really does seem like it's pretty much died in my area in the last 10 years. Maybe some of the guys going to the airlines now will help open things up, but that doesn't mean the business is there. It just sucks to miss the age cutoff for the ATP rule by about 90 days. Otherwise hitting 500TT and getting on in the nick of time would have been possible, but I can't make myself age any faster. Such is life! Hopefully things work out and I can get off the ramp.