Hand flying

The CRJ automation is a piece of crap, they could learn a thing or two from the Saab.

Ugh. I think I just had a flashback to flying with crotchety old Memphis captains. :)

"That's not how we did it on the Saab! Have I ever told you about the Saab? The Saab was a mighty machine! A joy to fly. Not like this new-fangled electronical crap that you kids want to fly. Hey, pass me that empty cup. I need a spit cup." :bang:
 
I tend to hand fly for an extended period of time, sometimes into the flight levels (US).

I'm a geek so I can run a box with my eyes closed, but I'm still trying to develop my motor skills with the aircraft since I don't do that many takeoffs and landings in comparison to my flight time.
 
At the regionals/majors/legacies, are there some airlines that look down upon hand flying the aircraft rather than letting the A/P do all of the work? I was talking to a buddy of mine in the regionals and he was telling me that in their book, they want the A/P engaged by 600 feet and disconnected at minimums. Is this the case at most places or are there some places that allow pilots (Captains or First Officers) to actually hand fly the aircraft during departure and/or arrival?

That's insane, and it leads to people who are low total time or low time-in-type to really be overwhelmed sometimes when an occasion happens where they simply can't get the autopilot to do it and they have to hand fly.

If we're not doing lots and lots of level offs on the way up I usually hand fly to 15-20K, sometimes all the way up especially if we're light. I know exactly the people ATN_Pilot is referring to, ham fisted and making it unnecessarily uncomfortable for everyone. I think that anyone can fly just as smoothly as the autopilot though, and depending on the plane, smoother. I'd challenge anyone in the back to guess at what point I turned on the A/P!

On the way in it just depends on where we are and what's going on. If it's OVC005 and bumpy and driving rain and we're coming into, say, EWR where you're down low for nearly 20-30 minutes dropping down a thousand feet at a time, I'll leave it on until we see the runway.

On the contrary, I enjoy going into a small outstation when it's not busy and flying it all the way down from 10-20K. I like to turn the A/P and throttles off in the flight levels and keep the power and idle until we're at the final approach fix. It's fun to master the energy management of a plane after getting past the first few months in it, and as anyone on this board could attest, after a couple thousand hours on one type, you sort of need to keep challenging yourself in new ways.

I liked reading the discussion above about the throttles on/off when the A/P comes off. I'm in the Embraer but I do exactly what was mentioned above with the MD-11, that is, when I turn off the A/P I also turn of the throttles. I feel like they are battling against me with the pitch and they are a little reactive and don't know what your hand is doing with the yoke. I'd rather just do it myself smoothly than override them the whole time because it's less work, so off they go. I have also seen them go completely IDLE at 300-400 feet on approach, which doesn't even go along with the stable approach criteria in our books, which is why I just leave them off. I haven't landed with them on more than 3-4 times in four years, but only 10% on this plane seem to do that.
 
I liked reading the discussion above about the throttles on/off when the A/P comes off. I'm in the Embraer but I do exactly what was mentioned above with the MD-11, that is, when I turn off the A/P I also turn of the throttles. I feel like they are battling against me with the pitch and they are a little reactive and don't know what your hand is doing with the yoke. I'd rather just do it myself smoothly than override them the whole time because it's less work, so off they go. I have also seen them go completely IDLE at 300-400 feet on approach, which doesn't even go along with the stable approach criteria in our books, which is why I just leave them off. I haven't landed with them on more than 3-4 times in four years, but only 10% on this plane seem to do that.

Do the throttles physically move? If not, it helps matters a lot. If they aren't doing what I'd like, I simply manually override them.
 
Do the throttles physically move? If not, it helps matters a lot. If they aren't doing what I'd like, I simply manually override them.

Same here. I can't remember the last time I had the autothrottles off. It's really easy to override them if they're doing something weird, which is very unusual on the 717 anyway. Overall, they're pretty smooth unless it's really gusty. I'm glad SWA is a Boeing fan. I don't think I would like the whole non-moving autothrottles on the Bus.
 
Do the throttles physically move? If not, it helps matters a lot. If they aren't doing what I'd like, I simply manually override them.

They do move, i.e. Boeing style vs. the Airbus fixed detent.

Most people I fly with just override them as necessary and that works. What I cringed at a few trips ago was a new guy who let them go to idle at 30 feet by themselves as they always do, but we needed that power in a little longer. That's another reason why I turn them off with the A/P: we can land with them on in this plane and they retard at 30 feet. But maybe I want power in until 20 or 10 feet. Maybe I even want a little power in all the way to the pavement if we've just got that sinking feeling and we've lost our headwind or are going through wake in the flare or something.

One person I flew with didn't ever have his hands on the throttles during the landing. I didn't prefer that myself, at all. The rationale was related to the Airbus. But to that, I say, even the Airbus does not go to idle on it's own, it tells cues you but you pull the power off when you want to. I'd feel very uncomfortable landing with two hands on the yoke while the throttles do their thing.
 
FWIW, I left the E170 ATs on all the time from TO to touchdown, overriding as necessary. I do the same in the big Boeing as well, except cut them off at 50'

My real automation pet peeve? Not guarding the controls (flight and power) when you're close to the ground.

Probably, outside company guidance, I'd say use the AP and/or AT to decrease a work load when there are extraneous factors (wx, complex departure/arrival procedures, fatigue) that could really increase the chance of an error. And from sitting in a room seeing radar track deviations from RNAV departures, if the company expects AP on for them, and the FOQA data shows it's off.....well, that's no fun for anyone.

Personally, I fly much like DE727 does. I still pass a sim event every 6 mos. and haven't had any violations with unexpected automation failures.
 
Ugh. I think I just had a flashback to flying with crotchety old Memphis captains. :)

"That's not how we did it on the Saab! Have I ever told you about the Saab? The Saab was a mighty machine! A joy to fly. Not like this new-fangled electronical crap that you kids want to fly. Hey, pass me that empty cup. I need a spit cup." :bang:
You know, the Avro had a horn. The Avro had a cockpit so large you could keep your crap with you up there. The Avro had a huge cabin, everyone loved it. Avro avro avro avro avro... ...
 
Insert unsubstantiated argument by the old crusty guys about pitch mode lacking stall protection.

I had a guy get on my case for switching out of VNAV to vertical speed to do a level off in the flight levels once. "It doesn't have stall protection!" Buddy, we're doing 2500fpm up here! We'll be fine!
 
Handfly to 10k-ish, Handfly all approaches (regardless of weather). When to disconnect the autopilot? When George in the Jungle Jet starts turning the opposite way or blows through the localizer like bad, bad instrument student.
 
I had a guy get on my case for switching out of VNAV to vertical speed to do a level off in the flight levels once. "It doesn't have stall protection!" Buddy, we're doing 2500fpm up here! We'll be fine!

Like I've always said, if you're so out of touch with the airplane that you stall it while in pitch mode, you have no business being a professional pilot.
 
I tend to hand fly a lot. I switch back and forth between hand flying with or without the flight director. Last week we had a real short hop, only 47 miles, and I hand flew it raw data the entire flight. It was a blast.

There's nothing worse than riding in the back of an airplane when the guy flying up front wants to prove he's a tough guy and can hand fly up to altitude, and then proceeds to pull Gs for the first twenty minutes of the flight since he's incapable of flying smoothly. Ptich up, pitch down, pitch up, pitch down. Enough already! Turn on the autopilot, hotshot.​

Yea maybe. But, how is a pilot suppose to iron his flying if he always turns the a/p on? Also, I think it is important to hand fly at least a little from time to time. The AP and FD does fail. In December I had just that. We got stuck with the plane for 4 more legs after that too. No AP no FD. I was glad that wasn't the first time I tried to level the CRJ w/o an AP.

Now, I do agree that it is aggrevating going up and down, up and down. I had one flight I remember several months ago, I was very tired, and for whatever reason could not get the thing trimmed just right. After about the 2nd up and down I was like this is dumb and turned on the AP.​
 
I think the pilot operates the controls 100 percent. It's just that some of the controls are buttons and knobs....hehe.

I don't really think that selecting altitudes and twisting headings into the flight guidance panel really qualifies as "hand flying"!
 
I hand fly a lot, I like to fly airplanes. I turn off the FD too and do raw data approaches without FMS auto tuning.

I think it is American Airlines that has a great video talking about going up and down in levels of automation to reduce workload, ie instead of getting a clearance direct somewhere followed by FMS button mashing, LNAV engagement, etc, just go to HDG mode, turn the bug towards the fix/airport and then break out the C# for dummies book and reprogram Otto.

I'm with Polar, people who don't "guard" the controls with Fred flying close to the ground put a lot more faith in some 50 cent piece of circuit board put together by somebody I don't know.
 
Back
Top