"I'm not interested in the airlines"

The top Captains at FEDEX, which I assume takes years to get there, make $700K or so I was told (but it's not the majority). I know Southwest Captains can make $400-50K a year. I know of at least one FO (old CO), who makes $300K as a FO with Southwest. The money is there but you have to be in the right place, right time, right experience, etc. Gotta go with the Big Dogs!
 
I tell people I want to be an airline pilot, but only because that's the first thing they think of when I used to say I want to fly professionally. It's just easier.

I really don't care if its 91/135/121 or anything in between. Prop, Jet, Helicopter I don't really care. If I'm happy and can provide for my family, it's all good.
 
bunk22 said:
The top Captains at FEDEX, which I assume takes years to get there, make $700K or so I was told (but it's not the majority). I know Southwest Captains can make $400-50K a year. I know of at least one FO (old CO), who makes $300K as a FO with Southwest. The money is there but you have to be in the right place, right time, right experience, etc. Gotta go with the Big Dogs!
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I have some friends at FedEx. Yes, a few hundred thou after a few years. But it also required moving their families overseas, and a long time working up to that elsewhere.
 
Im personally not interested in the airlines, never really have been to that type of flying, etc. There's nothing wrong with it, it's just not my type of gig. Some people enjoy the heck out of it, and that's great; others don't, and that's fine too. As many have said already here, to each their own. Of course, when I was younger and was doing the dues-paying jobs, I too applied to the commuters (as regionals were then) in the mid-90s, as it was a very common way to go, but I went military instead. I just don't know how much I would've enjoyed it, and thats key: do what you enjoy.

What never really makes sense to me, are the guys I see posting on sites like this, as well as in-person, who go to a job......cargo, airline, CFI, whatever it is.....and don't seem happy with any part of it. And I mean any part of it. Sure, everywhere has it's respective problems.....every industry, every company. But there has to be something good about it, or why keep doing it? Why be miserable? I never really particularly liked the USAF.....I used to as a kid before I realized what a total clown act it was......but I liked the mission and the equipment, which they just happened to own so I could do it. I was never one for the BS of the USAF, of which there is a TON. So when I was able to, I left. I went to the Reserves as a part-timer, and I work it as a part-timer, leaving a fair amount of the BS behind, though there is still some to be had...can't be avoided totally. Point is, I wasn't happy doing the active duty thing.

An old head once told me "you have two buckets: a career bucket, and a BS bucket. Whichever bucket begins to fill up first, and tops off first, THAT is the one that will determine what you have to do...." In my USAF time, the BS bucket filled up rapidly and way before the career one did, so I left and changed careers. And now, Im happy doing what I do.......my primary LEO work, my contract fire work, and for little extra pocket change....my AF reserve work.
 
ctab5060X said:
I wonder how many would be jumping at the airlines if the only thing to change was an increase in pay? (current 121 QoL remains the same)
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I would if moving to an airline didn't mean a 60% pay cut from where i am now on 1st year pay at my current 135gig.

I tried to get hired at 121 for the heck of it back in 2007 and at booth places i interviewed they were only interested in those with less than 400 hours, and since i had 4x that i didn't even get a Sim ride. Maybe times have changed, but I'm not willing to make that change for the huge pay cut and loss of qol
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk
 
drunkenbeagle said:
Never personally had any interest in an airline gig. I never wanted to be a CFI either, but spending enough time around aviation, I kind of stumbled into it.

I would work at an airline, if the pay would be comparable to what I can make working for myself, or working for someone else doing computer stuff. Basically, anything that would give me 10 days/month home and 150K+ within 2 years. Should such an opportunity present itself, yeah, I guess I would be all over it. But I ain't holding my breath.

Sad state of affairs, I would probably take an airline gig if I could schedule it around the "side job." the side jobs pays about 8x what a regional would. When I actually looked into that, I learned I would make more and have a more flexible schedule as an FA.

I know folks that have left jobs at majors to do what I do, none of them seem to miss it. And for what it is worth, the few aviation gigs that I have been qualified for, and would likely get, all paid far better than a regional with far better QOL (not better than what I do now, but much better than airlines)
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What is it that you do now? If you don't mind me asking.
 
Screaming_Emu said:
We talked about that in recurrent this week. We came to the conclusion that about every 800 hours something happens out on the line that scares you. Would anyone else agree, or am I just not very good at this?
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I think it depends on the flying you're doing. I've been scared twice in 2000 hours. Learned from each. Would not repeat either.
 
z987k said:
I think it depends on the flying you're doing. I've been scared twice in 2000 hours. Learned from each. Would not repeat either.
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You know how they say "An idiot repeats his mistakes. A smart man learns from his mistakes. But a genius learns from the mistakes of others."?

Mind sharing? Or if you like, how about a story of what a "friend" did.
 
drunkenbeagle said:
I have some friends at FedEx. Yes, a few hundred thou after a few years. But it also required moving their families overseas, and a long time working up to that elsewhere.
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The guys at my squadron are stateside, no moving overseas. Not a requirement and having been in the military for 19 years, living overseas is nothing new.
 
Interesting subject. Zap, your post was really excellent.

I think if anything, what professional pilots and those aspiring to be professional pilots should take from this thread, is simply that NO type of flying is the end all be all for everyone. This is especially true of pax carriers in this country. And by now, we all should know and understand the reasons for this. That being said, pilots at Mainliners who have been there awhile are mostly in good shape. Will it always be that way? Who knows and given current trends not necessarily. We all know that the days of my time and my Father's time are over.

But there are always still possibilities. Is Regional flying wonderful? Not at many Regionals, but some it is okay to decent depending on your goals and lifestyle and if you have a family or a wife that works, etc. That is what everyone has to consider these days. All the variables and all the what ifs to try and make an educated guess as to what to do and where to go. And this isn't easy because job security is not what it once was and none of us have a crystal ball. Are there still decent carriers? Yes, there are along with some not so decent and again who knows for sure what will happen in the future. I might advise someone with enough experience and housr to go to Jet Blue for example. I might tell someone else that DAL is still good for the moment and stable. It's down to so few majors at this point and certainly the options will be even fewer sooner rather than later, however.

Freight is a great bet however, especially FedEx. If you can really relocate, the greatest opportunity I see and huge growth at an airline is frankly, Emirates. But that requires a huge move and change in lifestyle and adapting. But, I have a friend who was furloughed from a major who decided (with his wife's approval) to pick up sticks, move himself, her and the kids to Australia and fly there. They love it there and he loves his job. They get back to the states to visit other family members and they come to visit them. They are having the adventure of their lives and it's a great country with a very stable economy.

Cathay is another good choice. And there is growth and opportunities galore in Asia at several carriers. And some will be happy to move there and enjoy living there. It's not for everyone, though.

But what really matters here, is that it's okay not to want to fly for a major pax carrier. There is freight flying, corporate flying, charter flying, all kinds of other flying and teaching as a CFI and sim instructing and so much more. What matters is that these are ALL professional flying/aviation jobs and careers. All of them. There should never be any poo pooing about my plane is bigger than your plane, or I get to fly internationally and you fly in state or you just instruct or whatever nonsense. Seriously hate that.

Everyone has to decide what is important to them now and in the future and to their families and find their own niche. And if that means working at another job that you enjoy and flying or instructing on the side and perhaps owning your own plane, so be it. If it's corporate because you enjoy that or charter or air ambulance work or bush flying or law enforcement flying or mapping or fire fighting or whatever flying, it's all up to you to decide and try and find the job that pays you decently and rewards you and fulfills you and allows you the lifestyle that you are comfortable with. No one else can really advise you, judge you or decide for you what path to take. When you decide, there will be plenty of help and advice. But you have to figure out what you really want and also what is really realistic for you and understand that there are just dozens and dozens of choices. That to me, is a wonderful thing.

I sometimes get the feeling that pilots or would be pilots have the gettotheairlinesitis or something. It's no longer the end all be all of life that it once was. It can be for some but there are just so many other possibilities that will make a great professional life for you, decent money and a good lifestyle and the lifestyle that you want. Do some exploring and consider all the options. All of them. I can't stress that enough, these days especially. Be open. Expand your horizons.

Do I miss the Whale? You bet. Do I miss international flights? You bet. Do I miss the crews? You bet. Do I miss the traveling to great cities? You bet. But now, I travel with my wife and/or my family and I get to relax and be a tourist and take my time to really relax and enjoy myself. (I pick better hotels too lol) Do I miss all the other stuff, the mundane, the bankruptcies, the strikes, the greedy CEO's, idiot company decisions, furloughs of my friends, biorhythm issues from hell, missing out on so much of my kid's lives and being away from family and all the other bullcrap? Not one tiny bit. I am glad that I did what I did and proud of my career, don't get me wrong and that I experienced what I did. But what I have now is just as good and in many ways, even better. But it is also, very different. My advice........ Be ready to change, be open to possibilities, and embrace something new and unknown. And most importantly, be happy with what you do choose and be satisfied with that. Get over the grass is always greener syndrome. That is rarely true. Relax and enjoy the ride. You will find your path. You have to find the value in your own life and it's not a contest.
 
I complain like any other pilot, but to be completely honest, this career has been very good to me. I've never been furloughed, my pay has risen pretty much every year, except for my probationary year at AirTran, and I get tons of time off. The merger with SWA didn't thrill me, because I've never really had working at SWA as a goal, but it'll be a good pay check until I retire. I doubt SWA is going anywhere, so my career is pretty secure. Would I have that sort of security in other aviation fields? I doubt it. Only the majors offer that level of security. They're pretty much "too big to fail" now, so unless you're in the bottom 10% during an economic downturn, you're probably safe.

Are there things about other areas of aviation that would probably interest me? Sure. Once SWA takes over, I'll be flying a lot more than I like. Probably 600+ hours per year. I'd love to have Zap's schedule of only 300 hours year after year. I've had that at AirTran, but it's going away. I'd love to avoid the TSA and the hassles of pax travel, so being at FDX or UPS would be great. I also love night flying, so they appeal to me in that vein. But overall, I can't complain, and I've got a pretty good balance here.

If you can suffer through the first few years at the regionals, then this is probably still the best bet for making a good income, having a secure career, and a decent retirement. But it's definitely monotonous. If that bothers you, then look elsewhere. If you absolutely have to fly to a different airport every day you go to work, and do weird approaches into exotic airports, then the airlines probably aren't your best bet. I've flown to the same 6 airports every month for about 7 months now. I love that. Others would hate it. You just have to know what you'll enjoy.
 
A Life Aloft probably just ended this whole thread.

Great advice in this thread, too. It's uplifting compared to a lot of other areas on this forum.
 
I guess my point in starting this thread was that what only a few years ago was a corny joke is now a serious choice.

Of course I don't think that all 121 flying sucks, and I would defiantly jump at the chance to fly a wide-body overseas. But after all the downsides have been considered the question "Is it really worth it in the end?" does not have a clear cut answer.

One of the biggest problems I have with the airlines is that you have absolutely no control over your career over the long term. The recent AA bankruptcy is just another indicator that as a pilot you are just along for the ride. Even many of you who said you love the airline life attributed it to being lucky.

One thing I've noticed from the responses so far is that may of us who have families are the ones who see the havock that the airline pilot lifestyle can have on our family. Many of us who have kids view QOL through a different filter than those of you that do not. The fact that Doug and Kristi can no rev to Germany for Octoberfest is cool, but I can never use that per because I have a family of five and three of us are in school. But I rarely miss any birthdays, holidays, or other family events. Those have a value that is tough to quantify.
 
My opinion may change as I spend more time in the 121 world, but I've been at my regional for about 6 months now and I don't have much to complain about. I don't have a family, my girlfriend and I live together in an apartment. We both moved from Atlanta, very simple move. I didn't have visions of grandeur prior to being hired, and it's exactly as I had imagined it. So far I'm really enjoying it. I enjoy the flying, the view, working with a crew and interacting with passengers, (especially kids).

Life on reserve has been very easy so far - I fly about 30-35 hours a month on average. I've only flown three 4 day trips including IOE and I'm home most every night of the month. I have 7 weekend days off this month, and a stretch of 5 days in the middle that I'll use to go home and do some Cub flying with dad and see old friends. I try to get back home for a few days a month. I don't mind being on reserve during the week days because what else am I going to be doing? I don't mind hanging around the apartment during the days I'm on call. I get paid (not much this first year) to not work, I that's pretty good stuff - there aren't many jobs that work like that.

I'm a pretty laid back guy and am good at going with the flow - I don't complain about much because unfortunately there probably isn't a whole lot I can do about it. I guess my only complaint is that pilots complain about too much. As Slingblade would say "Reckon ye 'ourght not be 'atta way, mmhmm". I guess the job / career is what you make of it - it'll be great for some and terrible for others. I think a lot of ones satisfaction, or lack of, depends on ones personality and attitude. For me, it's working out pretty well - I really enjoy it.

Maybe it's because I'm a new guy, but I take great pride in what I do - even though the industry isn't what it used to be, there's no reason to feel like you're a factory worker or try to devalue/demean the profession. The responsibility of safely transporting people is the same as it's always been since the beginning of the airlines. Just because you're paid less doesn't mean you should think of the job any differently. Seeing the attitude and lack of pride that some pilots display is frustrating.
 
I don't think everyone on the site was committed to flying for a legacy passenger carrier when I joined Jetcareers 11 years ago. In fact it was pretty fashionable to say "I want to fly corporate/fractional/freight" and you were often looked at as overly optimistic/unrealistic if you expressed a strong desire to fly for a legacy. You ran the risk of being outright derided if you if were perceived to have "SJS" for a regional, not necessarily by Doug or others with a lot of experience, but by some that were still in the early phases of their careers or users that have since moved on or been banned. Keep in mind back then the regionals were growing like weeds on miracle gro. There was a high level of resentment for that growth while the legacies shrunk in the wake of 9-11 (the way the whole Comair RJDC situation went down certainly did not help anything). The conventional line of thinking was that 10% or less of the professional pilot community was ever going to make it to a legacy, so don't set your heart on it or you'll end up being disappointed.

Now that the regionals have stabilized a bit and some are sharing in the inevitable financial pain that comes with the industry it's more of a "c'est la vie" mentality in terms of viewing other pilots' career goals. That holds true as long as they don't pay for jobs, cross picket lines, or work for a certain five letter carrier who shall remained unnamed.

If you asked me 10 years ago, when I started instructing what my career goals were I would've been intentionally vague to avoid derision, but if I was honest I would've probably said Southwest or Delta. I'll probably never end up in either of those places because of the way things have worked but I'm still pretty happy in the niche I've found. I advocate jumping on the first opportunity you get to move up in the industry as long as it doesn't violate one of the aforementioned trio of taboos, even if it means you might not be getting your dream job. I never understood the concept of "holding out for brand X"....if you're offered a job that offers a significant pay and/or QOL increase for you, you should take it, taboos excluded. Having a better job now, with the in-demand type rating(s) and experience that goes along with it, makes you better qualified for good jobs in the future, should your company find itself in TWA/Pan Am/ATA type situation. /TLDR
 
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