Proposed 7% paycut now for Pinncollaba

So, basically they want me to give up the equivalent of a car payment every month because our previous management team had no clue on how to budget or bid for contracts. Tuck fhat. There's no guarantee that if we give them the 7%, they won't still file bankruptcy and take ANOTHER 5-10 percent from us. We signed a new agreement less than a year ago. Sure, it included pay raises, but it also included higher insurance premiums for us. The 7% I'd be giving back is WELL more than what I gained between the 1999 agreement and the 2011 agreement.....and I get to keep my higher health care premiums as a bonus!

Now, I'm 100% working WITH management to get through this. As it is, it feels like management has come to us hat in hand begging for $$$ rather than even ATTEMPTING a plan to work with us. There was no "Times are tough, we need to work together. Here's the plan." They went straight to "We're hosed and need money." How about SHARING with us where our metrics are for bonuses under the Delta and United contracts? We've been shooting in the dark for years on where break even, loss and profit are. If we know we need X% in order to get a bonus for performance from Delta, wouldn't it be a good idea to let us know that, and then give us daily updates on where we stand? Everyone, go to flypinnacle.com, log on, and look at when the last "Weekly performance update" was done. Yeah, appalling. How are we going to know where we stand if our own management doesn't give us the information we need? You might have more guys willing to go the extra mile to make sure we get out on time if they know we're close to getting that bonus, especially if it means they don't have to take a pay cut. Why do you think a lot of places have profit sharing plans for their employees? The "Simply the Best" bonus program works well.....when we're not bleeding cash. But the pilots aren't in the plan, so we don't care that often. Tie it to our pocket books and watch the performance improve dramatically.

Rather than a pay cut, how about a pay freeze? Instead of trying to hit a home run out of the park and get all their $$$ in one shot with a 7% pay cut, how about a 2 year pay freeze? In the end they get the same amount of money, and guys don't have to go into debt (or into debt as much if you're an FO) in order to make ends meet. I'd agree to a 2 year pay freeze. A 7% pay cut? Never, unless after that year you had on paper that I was getting a 5-7% pay raise on the other end of it. A) that won't happen. B) If we wind up in bankruptcy anyway, any agreement like that isn't worth the paper it's printed on.

Finally, you're coming to the people that have been screaming ways to save money for the past 5+ years and saying "Crap. We're in trouble. We need money" after you ignored us. I know I've sent in multiple suggestions. Simple things that cost zilch, like COMMUNICATING WITH THE RAMP THAT WE NEED TO GET THE GROUND POWER PLUGGED IN. Don't just shoot off a memo and assume it's happening. Follow up. Use those middle management types that make money to make sure your front line employees are doing the job properly. If they're not, don't just slap them on the wrist. Find someone to replace them. I've been a ramper. It's not that hard to hit a button, drop the cord and have it ready to go before the plane gets there. My past three trips, I've sat there with the #2 engine spinning for an average of 5-7 minutes before the ground power was plugged in. Forget getting heat plugged in when it's snowing outside. That's a pipe dream.

If this management team had actually ATTEMPTED to work with the labor groups before asking for concessions, I might be a little more forgiving. As it is, we went from "We're okay" to "We need concession" with nothing in the middle. Forget it. You want concessions? Pay the money to a bankruptcy lawyer to get them. I'm not giving them over for free....and then likely watching you take more as the bankruptcy lawyer gets paid more anyway.
 
Here is my deal to managment.

I will give you 7%, but it will be on these terms.

1) My pay rate will remain at the contractual agreed rate.
2)The 7% will be calculated off of my Gar. hours at my pay rate, for one full year. This will be prorated over 12 months. Overs, and pay modifiers are not factored into the 7%, neither will be longevity raises over the period of the year. This will be deducted from my pay as a loan to the company.

3) This will be a loan to the company. It will have a 1 year term. The annual APR on this loan will be based off of PNCL credit rating, which right now gets them roughly 23%
Upon acceptance of this loan, pinnacle will place $1000 per pilot into a secured trust fund to be managed by ALPA.

4) This loan will be secured with leins on the physical proerty of PNCL, as well as the phycical propert of it's CEO.

5) At the end of the term, should a new agreement not be reached, the company will have 3 months to pay all debts plus interest. SHould they fail to do this, the Pilot Group shall, and will take possesion of leveraged properties until the terms plus penalties are met.

6) At completion of the term, the trust fund will be rolled into a furlough and strike readiness fund, to be managed by alpa, and is not refundable to the company.

Is Sean screws it up, or tries to "cancel" the terms in Ch11, his personal property is still at risk, and may be siezed. If we are going to take a risk and lend the company money, then there is going to be personal risk, and not a golden parachute waiting for them.
 
Here is my deal to managment.

I will give you 7%, but it will be on these terms.

1) My pay rate will remain at the contractual agreed rate.
2)The 7% will be calculated off of my Gar. hours at my pay rate, for one full year. This will be prorated over 12 months. Overs, and pay modifiers are not factored into the 7%, neither will be longevity raises over the period of the year. This will be deducted from my pay as a loan to the company.

3) This will be a loan to the company. It will have a 1 year term. The annual APR on this loan will be based off of PNCL credit rating, which right now gets them roughly 23%
Upon acceptance of this loan, pinnacle will place $1000 per pilot into a secured trust fund to be managed by ALPA.

4) This loan will be secured with leins on the physical proerty of PNCL, as well as the phycical propert of it's CEO.

5) At the end of the term, should a new agreement not be reached, the company will have 3 months to pay all debts plus interest. SHould they fail to do this, the Pilot Group shall, and will take possesion of leveraged properties until the terms plus penalties are met.

6) At completion of the term, the trust fund will be rolled into a furlough and strike readiness fund, to be managed by alpa, and is not refundable to the company.

Is Sean screws it up, or tries to "cancel" the terms in Ch11, his personal property is still at risk, and may be siezed. If we are going to take a risk and lend the company money, then there is going to be personal risk, and not a golden parachute waiting for them.


Oooh.. I like this.. :)
 
wishfully thinking, but it prevents taking 2 pay cuts, and having to fight to get it back...

I wasn't trying to be sarcastic... well, maybe I was a bit. But, on the square, someone much smarter than me once said, (paraphrasing) to see if you are getting a fair deal, turn it around and offer it back to the person - and see if they think that it is fair.

So, it is a good idea, and it is good to think out of the box on these kind of things.
 
Trust me. Once you give them money, you have to fight like hell to get it back.

And you never get it back. We've been making hundreds of millions of dollars at Delta, but they're (both the union and the company) seem completely satisfied with us working under the same bankruptcy contract with some minor improvements.
 
Trust me. Once you give them money, you have to fight like hell to get it back.

And you never get it back. We've been making hundreds of millions of dollars at Delta, but they're (both the union and the company) seem completely satisfied with us working under the same bankruptcy contract with some minor improvements.
that's why I won't give it to them as a concession. Loan on the CEOs name.. Sure. If the company does file ch11 it would also put the pilots in a position of a creditor to make demands. In a way it's a teeny bit of power. Even in ch11, if you hold a lien on a plane they have to make some restitution to clear it.

Lastly, as a loan, the minute they file, the loan stops, and it's in the pilots power to say when.

I'm well aware it would never fly, but that's the only way they are getting money from me...
 
in the past 10 hrs.i have spoken to 2 pilots who have been paid 90 hr plus credits for not flying at all for a month period in the past months. One sat for two months because they canceled his training class and basically forgot about him. With the amount of money these people waste on a daily basis, it is just silly to ask for pay concessions.
 
Their on top of things here. ON TIME is number 1. Im sooo happy that we get an updated ISL every month, paid on time, Go to training only to train on another plane a month later. Def need to take financial advice notes from them. Go job guys, Brazo Zulu you fine sirs. VOTE NOOOOOO! I am
 
in the past 10 hrs.i have spoken to 2 pilots who have been paid 90 hr plus credits for not flying at all for a month period in the past months. One sat for two months because they canceled his training class and basically forgot about him. With the amount of money these people waste on a daily basis, it is just silly to ask for pay concessions.


Meanwhile, 11-09 isn't even CLOSE to being fulfilled. They should never have done a vacancy that large, especially with our new bypass language. We've got reserves (both CA and FO) up in JFK that never fly. The FO I flew with last week hadn't flown much since THANKSGIVING. Senior people are bidding Long Call so they don't even have to commute in. Hell, I'M thinking about it at this point....
 
I know the situation literally makes me sick. I feel it quite audacious of mgmt to even suggest a pay cut before fixing these gaping holes in their business. And to think, that I only encounter such a minuscule part of the operation and I see all of these gaping inefficiencies and wasteful practices.

It's like they want to dump cargo to lighten the ship instead of repairing the holes. Dumping the cargo just prolongs the inevitable sinking of the ship, it won't prevent it.

You know, even if mgmt admitted openly that they run a retarded operation and are committed to fixing it via XYZ... i might be more open to contributing or sacrificing for the cause, but there has been no mention of it.
 
We've got reserves (both CA and FO) up in JFK that never fly. The FO I flew with last week hadn't flown much since THANKSGIVING. Senior people are bidding Long Call so they don't even have to commute in. Hell, I'M thinking about it at this point....

It's the same down in MEM. I've flown maybe 20 hours since Thanksgiving.

To top that off, I am first call reserve in MEM for January. Yes, you read it correctly, I intentionaly bid for first call thinking it would get me out of the house and actually flying some. WRONG! I have done one out and back in the last two weeks. Before that, I had to fill out an AVIS for a scheduler who did not assign a two day trip correctly. (I should have got the trip because I was first call).

I'm LCR for February. Probably not going to fly much again. Probably will end up flying more from the out and backs I have picked up than I will on reserve :eek2:.
 
Answer is still no. Hasn't changed from day one. I wonder if I could start filing for back pay for the times I've had to do the job of our schedulers and dispatchers as well as my own damn job.
 
The FO I flew with last week hadn't flown much since THANKSGIVING.
I've been at home for the last 5 months getting paid. I don't even bid. I've been trying to push up my training class but they won't even listen to me.

But apparently we're paid to much and need concessions...
 
The more I hear, the more I think a lot of our problems stem from the 11-09 award and the costs associated with it. They bit off more than they could chew, and they just won't admit it at this point. From what I hear, there's no short fall of staffing on the -200, but apparently there is on the Saab if they're offering 200%. So, we don't NEED those people waiting on -200 class dates, but apparently those that were pulled off the Saab needed to stay. Maybe if they had done a smaller, more manageable vacancy rather than the monstrosity that came out, we wouldn't be in this mess as badly. Yet another management generated problem I don't have the responsibility to fix.....but yet another one that we saw coming and they chose to ignore us.
 
but yet another one that we saw coming and they chose to ignore us.

It's amazing how many times we see things coming, yet management never listens to the pilot group and if they do come to the same conclusion, it is a year or more behind.
 
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