Delta & TPG Capital Considering Bids for American Airlines

[rickt86]

This is true.

I'm going to catch hell for saying this but consolidation has not been all bad for the health of the industry. I'd argue that without it we'd have more unemployed pilots than we do during this difficult economy.

Ya, they had to get back to a profit, and it sure helped a ton cutting down capacity. I am sure most would much rather some mergers, than have someone go CH11.

 

[Richman]

Watch the paint job. If there's a new AA paint job that has the AA in red, pointing northwest, it's a done deal.

When I saw the "new" DAL paint job, I knew the fix was in. That was quite a spell before the merger was announced.

Richman

 

[derg]

Watch the paint job. If there's a new AA paint job that has the AA in red, pointing northwest, it's a done deal.

When I saw the "new" DAL paint job, I knew the fix was in. That was quite a spell before the merger was announced.

Richman

Minimum paint, minimum change.

Ugh. Keeping my fingers crossed that this does not happen.

 

[bronco21016]

Minimum paint, minimum change.

Ugh. Keeping my fingers crossed that this does not happen.

I'm not saying this would be the greatest thing but I'm failing to see all the negative from a potential hook up of these two. More consolidation I think would be at worst an OK thing for the industry.

Are you just dreading the potential merger process? Contracts, seniority lists, cat fighting... all that mess? If so, then I understand your frustration haha.

 

[rickt86]

I wanted to put Ch 7 above.

 

[Rotor2Wing]

I'm not saying this would be the greatest thing but I'm failing to see all the negative from a potential hook up of these two. More consolidation I think would be at worst an OK thing for the industry.

Are you just dreading the potential merger process? Contracts, seniority lists, cat fighting... all that mess? If so, then I understand your frustration haha.

At first I thought the same thing.

Think about it this way. If they merged capacity would be cut once merged, 1/3 less pilots would be needed, and I would guess a min. loss of 500 regional airframes. Consolidation is a very bad thing for pilots in the airline industry. Less jobs, less pay, less competition= BAD

 

[Cav]

I'm not saying this would be the greatest thing but I'm failing to see all the negative from a potential hook up of these two. More consolidation I think would be at worst an OK thing for the industry.

Are you just dreading the potential merger process? Contracts, seniority lists, cat fighting... all that mess? If so, then I understand your frustration haha.

Mostly because people don't want to go through the frustrations that you mentioned but most importantly people worry about the potential of job loss. Generally when you combine two parts to make one you end up shedding a good bit in the process. That is usually but not always the case with pilots. If I had to venture a guess, a DAL/AMR matchup would play out worse for pilots than a LCC/AMR combo. If it's purely an asset sale, and AMR is sold in parts, it's anyone's guess as to how it would play out.

 

[Cav]

Consolidation is a very bad thing for pilots in the airline industry. Less jobs, less pay, less competition= BAD

No it's not ALWAYS bad. It certainly creates frustrations and risk but it doesn't always mean that mass layoffs are going to occur and impending armageddon. Some consolidation is in fact very healthy. We needed less competition in the airline world in order to raise fares. There's no way that the airlines would have made profits during the past few years during this economic cycle without some consolidation.

 

[derg]

I'm not saying this would be the greatest thing but I'm failing to see all the negative from a potential hook up of these two. More consolidation I think would be at worst an OK thing for the industry.

Are you just dreading the potential merger process? Contracts, seniority lists, cat fighting... all that mess? If so, then I understand your frustration haha.

Drama: Third graders don't have jack on a bunch of adults who feel slighted or that they were owed something they did not receive.

Parked airplanes: Lots and lots of parked airplanes - lots of 747-200, DC-9's, 757's and 767's that are now scorpion habitats out here in Arizona. Parked airplanes ultimately means fewer pilots.

The internal bickering and ridiculous "tug-o-war" that goes on between the divisions.

The "Seniority Electric Slide": Even with a relatively equitable SIL, most of us still took it in the shorts except the #1 guy on the seniority list.

Base closures: Inevitable. How many guys were dug into Anchorage, Memphis, Cincinnati, Honolulu, etc that never thought they would have to commute? Now they're in ATL and ATL's up in JFK. JFK's running to DTW, MSP to ATL and LAX, blah blah blah.

And remember, this was from a merger that was mostly smooth and friendly.

 

[Cav]

Drama: Third graders don't have jack on a bunch of adults who feel slighted or that they were owed something they did not receive.

Parked airplanes: Lots and lots of parked airplanes - lots of 747-200, DC-9's, 757's and 767's that are now scorpion habitats out here in Arizona. Parked airplanes ultimately means fewer pilots.

The internal bickering and ridiculous "tug-o-war" that goes on between the divisions.

The "Seniority Electric Slide": Even with a relatively equitable SIL, most of us still took it in the shorts except the #1 guy on the seniority list.

Base closures: Inevitable. How many guys were dug into Anchorage, Memphis, Cincinnati, Honolulu, etc that never thought they would have to commute? Now they're in ATL and ATL's up in JFK. JFK's running to DTW, MSP to ATL and LAX, blah blah blah.

And remember, this was from a merger that was mostly smooth and friendly.

Is it too early to have a drink?

 

[derg]

Is it too early to have a drink?

No, Sheryl Crow, it isn't! (You know, "I love a beer buzz, early in the morn'"?)

I tell people that a merger is like those swingin' single days when you pick up a girl in a night club. Everything looks great when the adrenaline is up, the lights are low and the bass from Mantronix is jumping, but once you're under the street lights on your way out and have a good look, "OMG! Look at the time! Uhhh, you know my mom's in town, I'm Amish on Rumspringa! I think my Shingles are acting up! I think I have Herpes! Ope...OPE... Yeah, there's my Irritable Bowel Syndrome acting up! Maybe you ought to go back inside to your friends..."

Mergers always seem awesome until you get a good look at it.

 

[Cav]

Mergers always seem awesome until you get a good look at it.

Doug, admittedly I wasn't around until after the merger and I know you guys went through a lot so I hesitate to even comment, but wouldn't you say that even with all the frustrations that Southernjets is a healthier company now in a healthier industry than before? I'm talking in a macro sense not bases, seniority, etc. I guess I just feel that despite the pain, going forward it's nice to be a company that is the bat rather than the ball so to speak...for now.

I'm pretty much convinced that there is a benefit to us as pilots due to DAL/NWA, CAL/UAL, and SWA/AT. I'm not in any way so optimistic about a DAL/AMR match but I don't see any merger with AMR as a whole (too much debt and pension obligation to make it attractive). Maybe a LCC/AMR combo but DAL/AMR seems unlikely. Now an AMR asset sale in pieces seems to be me to be very possible and it's anyone's guess as to how that would play out...in other words, what happens to the AMR pilots.

 

[derg]

I think I'd better clarify before someone from MSP firebombs my home office.

The "Eww, you looked better with the lights off" was not the other group, just mergers in general

 

[Rocketman99]

LCC/AMR would be awesome. Tagline: "Creating the World's Most Disgruntled Airline."