Best Routes

Aeroscout840

Aeroscout840

Well-Known Member
Happy Holidays all! Question. Our flight planning software is sometimes awful at picking routes. I thought by going to flight aware and searching for the routes being used today by other 737's, (between the same city pairs) I would have a better chance of being cleared as filed. Is this a good idea? How do you choose the best routing each day? Does it matter?
 
Obey the wise saying that the shortest distance between two points is a straight line. :) Haha Merry Christmas Rich. That's not a bad idea however you may want to consider the airplane performance (mainly RNAV vs traditional). Also, how many other jets could be on that same routing to make it become saturated and cause flow control? Just a few that i could think of off the top of my head.
 
How do I choose the best routing of the day? I check to see which CA is flying and if he is on my "I REALLY DONT WANT TO DISPATCH HIM" list.

Well the biggest factor is what has the company decided as what they want to save, time vs money. In theory that is what the cost index is used for but for some the routes Ive seen dont always make logical sense.

You may have to do some comparisons between routes.

If I opt to build a route and there are no weather issues to deal with enrte, Ill basically draw a straight line from the last point of the SID to the first point on the STAR that I plan on using then just file dct putting at least one point in each center I cross.
Works just fine. I've used FRD, Lat/Long, HAR with no issues.

Here is the biggest thing to remember and the FAA is working on fixing this issue. Every center does not have a complete US Nav database in its computer system. They will have all points within 200nm of their center. Thus if you are flying from LAX to JFK and you are going through ABQ and KC centers, AND you plan on filing DCT's. Ensure that your first point in ABQ is within 200nm of LAX center, likewise when entering KC center. Doesn't mean you cant list 2 points in each center but your first one should be within 200nm of the previous one. Again ATC is working on upgrading all centers database's so they are all on the same page.

Another thing, if you file step climbs or decents, ensure they occur at a navaid and not some fix along an airway. Have seen many filings reject because of this.

Hope this helps
 
F9DXER said:
How do I choose the best routing of the day? I check to see which CA is flying and if he is on my "I REALLY DONT WANT TO DISPATCH HIM" list.

Well the biggest factor is what has the company decided as what they want to save, time vs money. In theory that is what the cost index is used for but for some the routes Ive seen dont always make logical sense.

You may have to do some comparisons between routes.

If I opt to build a route and there are no weather issues to deal with enrte, Ill basically draw a straight line from the last point of the SID to the first point on the STAR that I plan on using then just file dct putting at least one point in each center I cross.
Works just fine. I've used FRD, Lat/Long, HAR with no issues.

Here is the biggest thing to remember and the FAA is working on fixing this issue. Every center does not have a complete US Nav database in its computer system. They will have all points within 200nm of their center. Thus if you are flying from LAX to JFK and you are going through ABQ and KC centers, AND you plan on filing DCT's. Ensure that your first point in ABQ is within 200nm of LAX center, likewise when entering KC center. Doesn't mean you cant list 2 points in each center but your first one should be within 200nm of the previous one. Again ATC is working on upgrading all centers database's so they are all on the same page.

Another thing, if you file step climbs or decents, ensure they occur at a navaid and not some fix along an airway. Have seen many filings reject because of this.

Hope this helps
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What's your source on the 200nm FIR point? Have asked this question numerous times with no really sound answers, but I've been asking the wrong people. 200nm really seems about right about 90% of the time without further coordinating. In the middle of the night I've heard UPS get cleared by Indy Center to Twentynine Palms after coordinating it down the road.
 
I honestly dont remember the source as I learned it way way back when. I think it had something to do with the NRP program when that intially came out and probably more associated with ATC's database issues
 
ljg said:
What's your source on the 200nm FIR point? Have asked this question numerous times with no really sound answers, but I've been asking the wrong people. 200nm really seems about right about 90% of the time without further coordinating. In the middle of the night I've heard UPS get cleared by Indy Center to Twentynine Palms after coordinating it down the road.
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It is the National Route Program. The one thing you have to remember is there has to be a remark in line 18.
RMK/NRP. This way, when you file all these directs, you will not get into any reroute situations. When I have aicraft flying domestically, I typically always file them NRP. There are only a couple of time when it was actually better to file them via Airways, etc then doing the directs because it actually added time.

When I have flights to cities where I do not have any routes built for, I will check for Pref Routes, and then I will check on FlightAware---to answer aeroscout's question.
Mach82: You will be advised when there is oversaturation on a flying route---that is why Center's will send out an advisory and let you know about FCA's. Cleveland is NOTORIOUS for this, and DC can also enact them when there are storms impacting the eastern seaboard.
 
Never heard of it till now. Found some reading here: http://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/fac/1716.html

Apparently only applies to FL290+ and flights longer than 400nm. I like that ATC isn't supposed to take the plane off the route unless they have to. I wonder how many dispatchers use that feature...

I usually use company preferred routing unless I notice something strange going on like the computer wants to put it at 11,000'. If I build it myself I try to take the straightest possible route between the cities on an airways (since ATC usually ends up giving re-routes if they're not on them - in the north east anyways).
 
I'll assume you're all talking about US Domestic airspace. Try to pull off direct to ANYTHING in Eurocontrol airspace and they'll drop you like third period French class. One thing not mentioned here so far with all of this "direct to" speak is MOA/Restricted/Prohibited airspace. If you're going to start cutting corners, you'd best be very observent of where you're going, lest you go filing through some active missile range! Filing via airways will GENERALLY keep you out of trouble, or at least invite less problems then if you go blazing your own trail, and considering the extensive network of J and Q routes now crossing the nation, you're not really putting yourself out much by doing so.

Also consider using "ATC Preferred Routes" if you're going between major hub airports, especially if you're jetting around the east coast. Plagerizing off other carriers' filed routes is also fair play, and I've used that a lot, especially outside the US.

Now, here's a question for you Canadian fliers... How do you guys usually file east to west in Canada? Say for instance KSEA to CYQX. Given the route system there's no way to get from here to there without crossing a couple of dozen airways laterally and filing lat/long points, which the Canucks seem to have no real problem with, but I wonder if there's a better way. Oh, and I gotta stay out of the AMU. Ready, GO!

Paul
 
ugotkevin said:
Never heard of it till now. Found some reading here: http://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/fac/1716.html

Apparently only applies to FL290+ and flights longer than 400nm. I like that ATC isn't supposed to take the plane off the route unless they have to. I wonder how many dispatchers use that feature...
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Yeah, NRP is nice, although I have heard of ATC controllers offering the flights a direct routing in order to take them off their route...and then be able to further mess with their routing down the road. ATC can be a pain to deal with at times...when I worked with one carrier based in LAS, they were dropping all of our flights down below FL330 hundreds of miles earlier because of a "letter of agreement" with LA Center. Of course, these letters aren't publicly posted either....

For as much as people complain about Eurocontrol, in general I have found them easier to deal with than US ATC is. Of course, it helps that severe thunderstorms are fairly rare in Europe, but for the most part, once you have found a routing they like, they don't keep messing with it...unlike in the US, where a plane will get rerouted for weather in Texas when they are still in Maine, and then end up getting cleared back to their original route a couple hours later once with weather has moved through their destination airport.
 
If you decide to use NRS waypoints on a NRR routing the 200NM rule doesn't apply and you also should put RMK/NRR or HAR (I can't remember) in item 18. However, and this is by no means a slam to those guys/gals who do this, a lot of the flight plans I see with NRS waypoints in them are "incorrect" for lack of a better term. I've seen five KDXXX waypoints when flying through Denver for example. The book says only one is required but......

I've also noticed that the 200NM rule (also in the AIM) is not followed always for NRP flights. More than once I've come across the first fix being greater than 200 miles after ARTCC crossing.
 
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