Aircraft Type Ratings

FlyMarines09

FlyMarines09

Well-Known Member
Say you have an ATP certificate. Your experience is solely on piston twins. You want to fly PIC on a light jet. Can you get a PIC type rating right off the bat or do you nee to get the SIC type first? How does that work for insurance for say a small charter op?
 
Nope...you can just just show up having never even seen a jet, much less flying one and be trained and typed in it.
 
FlyMarines09 said:
Say you have an ATP certificate. Your experience is solely on piston twins. You want to fly PIC on a light jet. Can you get a PIC type rating right off the bat or do you nee to get the SIC type first? How does that work for insurance for say a small charter op?
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Stateside the SIC types mean jack. they are an ICAO requirment only. You can get the PIC first.
 
FlyMarines09 said:
Say you have an ATP certificate. Your experience is solely on piston twins. You want to fly PIC on a light jet. Can you get a PIC type rating right off the bat or do you nee to get the SIC type first? How does that work for insurance for say a small charter op?
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O.K., I'll play along: "You have an ATP certificate....."

Seriously, you can go right into the PIC course. Most likely you will have a SOE (Supervised Operating Experience) restriction placed on your certificate by the FAA. It just means that you'll have to fly with another qualified (and typed) PIC for a few hours (it's no less than 25 hours but can be more depending on the experience you bring in the door). The other pilot must sign your logbook after the "SOE" flights. After you fly off the SOE time, take your logbook to the FSDO and get it cleared off of your certifcate.

The insurance is a whole different animal, they each have thier own minimums.

Also, you don't need an ATP to get a jet type rating. You can get a type rating with a Private or Commercial certificate if you want.
 
dustoff17 said:
Most likely you will have a SOE (Supervised Operating Experience) restriction placed on your certificate by the FAA.
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I believe that if you do the type check ride in the simulator the SOE is required, if you do your type check ride in the actual airplane the SOE is not required. One of the FAR's that actually seems to make sense..
 
I went from zero jet experience to single pilot CJ3 PIC. Having no jet experience made it challenging, but extremely doable. I'm actually looking forward to recurrent now that I sort of know what I am doing!
 
rframe said:
I believe that if you do the type check ride in the simulator the SOE is required, if you do your type check ride in the actual airplane the SOE is not required. One of the FAR's that actually seems to make sense..
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Didn't know that but it makes sense....

MikeOH58 said:
I went from zero jet experience to single pilot CJ3 PIC. Having no jet experience made it challenging, but extremely doable. I'm actually looking forward to recurrent now that I sort of know what I am doing!
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My first jet experience was PIC initial in the Encore+, less than a month later single pilot CJ3....I'm with you, it's doable.....
 
rframe said:
I believe that if you do the type check ride in the simulator the SOE is required, if you do your type check ride in the actual airplane the SOE is not required. One of the FAR's that actually seems to make sense..
Click to expand...

I did not think the sim training had anything to do with the SOE requirement. But I have only done type checks in the sim so I'm most likely completely wrong.

I thought the only way not to have an SOE limitation on a new PIC type is if you already have a jet type rating and will be adding another jet type rating or have some crazy amount of time in type. Since this will be flymarines first type it will have an SOE no matter where he does the training (I think).

Anyone know the FAR for this?
 
samstanton said:
I did not think the sim training had anything to do with the SOE requirement. But I have only done type checks in the sim so I'm most likely completely wrong.

I thought the only way not to have an SOE limitation on a new PIC type is if you already have a jet type rating and will be adding another jet type rating or have some crazy amount of time in type. Since this will be flymarines first type it will have an SOE no matter where he does the training (I think).
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Don't know the FAR, but I was blessedly released from the SOE limitation by virtue of my way-too-many hours of turboprop PIC. Can't remember how it worked, exactly, but I wasn't too far north of the requirements with ~5500 TT and ~2000 TPIC.
Anyone know the FAR for this?
 
Pilotdude3407 said:
Nope...you can just just show up having never even seen a jet, much less flying one and be trained and typed in it.
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Oh the huge manatee!

...insurance, however, will dictate what actually happens operationally, independently of the FAA's certification requirements.
 
rframe said:
I believe that if you do the type check ride in the simulator the SOE is required, if you do your type check ride in the actual airplane the SOE is not required. One of the FAR's that actually seems to make sense..
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This applies IF you get the 25 hours in the aircraft for which your seeking the rating. If you don't actually fly (while acting as PIC) at least 25 hours during your training, you'll have the SOE.......
 
dustoff17 said:
This applies IF you get the 25 hours in the aircraft for which your seeking the rating. If you don't actually fly (while acting as PIC) at least 25 hours during your training, you'll have the SOE.......
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(4) If the applicant does not meet the requirements of paragraph (a)(2) or (a)(3) of this section as appropriate, then-
(i) The applicant must complete the following tasks on the practical test in the airplane of the category, class, and type of airplane rating (if a type rating is applicable) for which the airplane rating applies: preflight inspection, normal takeoff, normal instrument landing system approach, missed approach, and normal landing; or
(ii) The applicant's pilot certificate will be issued with a limitation...
 
rframe said:
(4) If the applicant does not meet the requirements of paragraph (a)(2) or (a)(3) of this section as appropriate, then-
(i) The applicant must complete the following tasks on the practical test in the airplane of the category, class, and type of airplane rating (if a type rating is applicable) for which the airplane rating applies: preflight inspection, normal takeoff, normal instrument landing system approach, missed approach, and normal landing; or
(ii) The applicant's pilot certificate will be issued with a limitation...
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That's good, however, you must read on...

(iii) The limitation described under paragraph (a)(4)(ii) of this section may be removed from the applicant's pilot certificate if the applicant -

(A) Logs 25 hours of flight time in the category and class of airplane for the rating sought, and if a type rating is being sought, the flight time must be performed in the same type of airplane for the rating sought;

OR (as stated in a previous post above)

(B) Performs 25 hours of flight time under the direct supervision of the pilot in command who who holds the appropriate airplane catagory, class, and type rating, without limitations, in the same catagory, class, and type of airplane rating, if a type rating is applicable.
(C) .............
 
dustoff17 said:
That's good, however, you must read on...
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That is saying that if you have the limitation because you dont have the required PIC experience AND you didn't take the check ride in the real airplane, then it can be removed with your 25 hours of supervised experience.

IF you have enough PIC experience -or- you take the type ride in a real airplane, you don't have the limitation in the first place.
 
rframe,
We are BOTH correct as far as the FARs are concerned. However, I was trying to answer the QUESTION of the OP......

FlyMarines09 said:
Say you have an ATP certificate. Your experience is solely on piston twins. You want to fly PIC on a light jet. Can you get a PIC type rating right off the bat or do you nee to get the SIC type first? How does that work for insurance for say a small charter op?
Click to expand...

In THIS situation, because he has no TURBOJET time, he must have 25 hours in the airplane OR he gets a SOE.........
 
dustoff17 said:
In THIS situation, because he has no TURBOJET time, he must have 25 hours in the airplane OR he gets a SOE.........
Click to expand...

Actually I disagree. He doesn't need any turbojet time IF taking the type check ride in the real airplane.

What the PIC experience requirements does is give guys with enough previous experience the opportunity to take the checkride in a simulator and still not need an SOE.

Essentially the SOE is issued if you both 1: dont have all the PIC experience listed at the top AND 2. you take the checkride in a sim
 
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