Jacob Wall
Well-Known Member
Re: CFI's - Have you ever told a student you don't want to f
So I can log it but just not fill in the PIC section?
CFI's - Have you ever told a student you don't want to fly?
- Thread starter Jacob Wall
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drunkenbeagle
Gang Member
Re: CFI's - Have you ever told a student you don't want to f
As long as you have a private or commercial certificate in single engine airplanes, yes you can log time whenever you are the sole manipulator of the controls. Endorsements and currency don't matter. (To ACT PIC as a safety pilot, you would need the endorsements, currency and medical).
You can also log time if you are the sole manipulator in IMC, if another ACTING PIC filed IFR, without and instrument rating, or
If you are the sole manipulator of a high performance aircraft when another pilot is ACTING PIC.
Take a look at 61.51(e)(1)(i) and ask your flight instructor to read it. It is pretty clear on what can and can not be logged.
My CFI at the time, the one in question, said I couldn't log it so I trusted him.
So even w/o a complex endorsement even in a complex a/c I can log PIC so long as I'm the sole manipulator of the controls? I just want to confirm this.
As long as you have a private or commercial certificate in single engine airplanes, yes you can log time whenever you are the sole manipulator of the controls. Endorsements and currency don't matter. (To ACT PIC as a safety pilot, you would need the endorsements, currency and medical).
You can also log time if you are the sole manipulator in IMC, if another ACTING PIC filed IFR, without and instrument rating, or
If you are the sole manipulator of a high performance aircraft when another pilot is ACTING PIC.
Take a look at 61.51(e)(1)(i) and ask your flight instructor to read it. It is pretty clear on what can and can not be logged.
drunkenbeagle
Gang Member
Re: CFI's - Have you ever told a student you don't want to f
No, if he was manipulating the controls, it could be a high performance, high altitude, complex taildragger in IMC. So long as the ACTING PIC was legal, he can log PIC whenever he had sole control of the aircraft.
No, if he was manipulating the controls, it could be a high performance, high altitude, complex taildragger in IMC. So long as the ACTING PIC was legal, he can log PIC whenever he had sole control of the aircraft.
flyboywbl
3rd regional in 1 year
Re: CFI's - Have you ever told a student you don't want to f
Who said it was a he? There were other "issues" I had with this student. I don't think I should have to hear about how they don't get their period anymore because they have lost so much weight. Also looking over and seating the word "Heroin" eched into their arm with a razor blade pretty much made up my mind that I don't want my signature in their log book anymore.
Who said it was a he? There were other "issues" I had with this student. I don't think I should have to hear about how they don't get their period anymore because they have lost so much weight. Also looking over and seating the word "Heroin" eched into their arm with a razor blade pretty much made up my mind that I don't want my signature in their log book anymore.
flyboywbl
3rd regional in 1 year
Re: CFI's - Have you ever told a student you don't want to f
No you CAN log it as PIC. You just can't ACT as PIC with out the proper endorsement. So all that time you have done sofar in the complex plane counts as PIC in your log book even though you don't have the endorsement as long ase you are rated in category and class. IE airplane Single Engine Land
No you CAN log it as PIC. You just can't ACT as PIC with out the proper endorsement. So all that time you have done sofar in the complex plane counts as PIC in your log book even though you don't have the endorsement as long ase you are rated in category and class. IE airplane Single Engine Land
ClarkGriswold
Non Nutritive Cereal Varnish Engineer
Re: CFI's - Have you ever told a student you don't want to f
I only refused to fly with one guy and he was an older guy. He Hadnt flown in about 15 years and was only a private pilot with about 80 hrs. This guy decided to go out and buy a Comanche 400 aka the widow maker ( 400 HP Lycoming IO-720) sketchy airplane with someone with such little experience. I talked to our DPE whos flown one and recommended going up with him before hand because of its reputation ( VERY glad I did, that plane will kill you very quickly, atleast I felt that way at the time with my experience) So the DPE charged the guy a check out fee and I charged the time to get checked out, also charged him for taking the time to read through his manuals to understand his jacked up GPS set up that he wanted me to teach him. Well he didnt like that very much and started telling me he wasnt going to pay for it, blah blah blah so I told him he clearly isnt interested in safety so we will not be flying together. All this after telling me he wasnt going to do stalls or that he didnt need to study a whole lot. Did not matter to me I think I had around 10 students at the time and didnt even want to take him on anyways. He also got pissed off and threw his keys at our front desk girl. Dbag
I only refused to fly with one guy and he was an older guy. He Hadnt flown in about 15 years and was only a private pilot with about 80 hrs. This guy decided to go out and buy a Comanche 400 aka the widow maker ( 400 HP Lycoming IO-720) sketchy airplane with someone with such little experience. I talked to our DPE whos flown one and recommended going up with him before hand because of its reputation ( VERY glad I did, that plane will kill you very quickly, atleast I felt that way at the time with my experience) So the DPE charged the guy a check out fee and I charged the time to get checked out, also charged him for taking the time to read through his manuals to understand his jacked up GPS set up that he wanted me to teach him. Well he didnt like that very much and started telling me he wasnt going to pay for it, blah blah blah so I told him he clearly isnt interested in safety so we will not be flying together. All this after telling me he wasnt going to do stalls or that he didnt need to study a whole lot. Did not matter to me I think I had around 10 students at the time and didnt even want to take him on anyways. He also got pissed off and threw his keys at our front desk girl. Dbag
TheRestoftheStory
Well-Known Member
Re: CFI's - Have you ever told a student you don't want to f
Even if the acting PIC was not legal to be PIC, he can still log the time that he was sole manipulator of the controls as PIC time.
Even if the acting PIC was not legal to be PIC, he can still log the time that he was sole manipulator of the controls as PIC time.
Re: CFI's - Have you ever told a student you don't want to f
I realize this is off-topic, but:
would you report a drug using student to the FAA? I'm a new CFI so I never encountered this situation, but the FIM recommends that you report them. Or just encourage her to take the medical exam to get the student certificate?
I realize this is off-topic, but:
would you report a drug using student to the FAA? I'm a new CFI so I never encountered this situation, but the FIM recommends that you report them. Or just encourage her to take the medical exam to get the student certificate?
Jacob Wall
Well-Known Member
Re: CFI's - Have you ever told a student you don't want to f
7.4 hrs dual, the additional 23 hours was with another college friend of mine who is in the same club. Insurance requires 10 hrs dual which is why I haven't gotten it yet, like I said I have now over 30 hours of time in this a/c and more time in cardinals from previous flying so it's not anything new to me.
drunkenbeagle
Gang Member
Re: CFI's - Have you ever told a student you don't want to f
Well, I guess that is their problem, not yours!
One more thing to add, since this comes up all of the time. The same folks that think you can't log time, will then say you shouldn't, it might someday look bad at a job interview. For the most part, this is baloney. You log instrument time before you have an instrument ticket - often times as PIC, and no one has an issue with that.
It shouldn't take more than a few hours to get a complex endorsement in any case. I train primary students with retractable gear - it isn't that different. Insurance on the other hand may want 25 hours in type, so I would certainly log every second of it you were flying.
Well, I guess that is their problem, not yours!
One more thing to add, since this comes up all of the time. The same folks that think you can't log time, will then say you shouldn't, it might someday look bad at a job interview. For the most part, this is baloney. You log instrument time before you have an instrument ticket - often times as PIC, and no one has an issue with that.
It shouldn't take more than a few hours to get a complex endorsement in any case. I train primary students with retractable gear - it isn't that different. Insurance on the other hand may want 25 hours in type, so I would certainly log every second of it you were flying.
flyboywbl
3rd regional in 1 year
Re: CFI's - Have you ever told a student you don't want to f
The only thing that could bite you in a job interview would be if you sat right seat in a PC12 or C90 and you log a lot of PIC time, you might get some systems questions in the interview. My buddy "flew" right seat in a PC12 and he was asked some questions since the pilot was a CFI and gave him a high altitude endorsement. I'm not saying you should not log it, but if you do, be prepared to answer some questions.
The only thing that could bite you in a job interview would be if you sat right seat in a PC12 or C90 and you log a lot of PIC time, you might get some systems questions in the interview. My buddy "flew" right seat in a PC12 and he was asked some questions since the pilot was a CFI and gave him a high altitude endorsement. I'm not saying you should not log it, but if you do, be prepared to answer some questions.
flyboywbl
3rd regional in 1 year
Re: CFI's - Have you ever told a student you don't want to f
Haha the funny thing is that there was a FSDO guy there the first day this student showed up. There was talk about doing Coke backstage at a concert a few years back. The FSDO inspector said joakingly after the student left ,"well I hope they have changed their ways!"
I thought there would be a shocking surprise when said student went to get medical.
There was, it was issued! Obviously they lied on the application because you automatically get denied if you admit to drug use in the past. Then you have to go through the FAA which takes time.
One guy in my class said he used to smoke pot. He was denied the medical. After two months he heard back and he had to do a year of random drug tests before he could reapply. He decided not to continue the program.
Anyway, at this point I knew the student had lied. I did not report it but I told them I would not fly with them anymore.
Haha the funny thing is that there was a FSDO guy there the first day this student showed up. There was talk about doing Coke backstage at a concert a few years back. The FSDO inspector said joakingly after the student left ,"well I hope they have changed their ways!"
I thought there would be a shocking surprise when said student went to get medical.
There was, it was issued! Obviously they lied on the application because you automatically get denied if you admit to drug use in the past. Then you have to go through the FAA which takes time.
One guy in my class said he used to smoke pot. He was denied the medical. After two months he heard back and he had to do a year of random drug tests before he could reapply. He decided not to continue the program.
Anyway, at this point I knew the student had lied. I did not report it but I told them I would not fly with them anymore.
Okie_Pilot
Pitts Builder
Re: CFI's - Have you ever told a student you don't want to f
SHEESUS. How long does it take to get a complex endorsement? I had mine in a couple of hours.
Remember to bring the gear up, remember to put the gear down. Check. Okay, you're good!
SHEESUS. How long does it take to get a complex endorsement? I had mine in a couple of hours.
Remember to bring the gear up, remember to put the gear down. Check. Okay, you're good!
flyboywbl
3rd regional in 1 year
Re: CFI's - Have you ever told a student you don't want to f
Agreed! My HP endorsement was .6 hrs. My boss was in the back seat and there were two of us getting a 141 commercial/C182RG checkout at the same time. We landed and my boss said we were good to teach in the plane. I asked him if I needed the endorsement and he said " Yeah that's probably a good idea".
Agreed! My HP endorsement was .6 hrs. My boss was in the back seat and there were two of us getting a 141 commercial/C182RG checkout at the same time. We landed and my boss said we were good to teach in the plane. I asked him if I needed the endorsement and he said " Yeah that's probably a good idea".
Pilotforhire587
Lycra Man
Re: CFI's - Have you ever told a student you don't want to f
But in order to do that wouldn't the ACTING PIC have to be an instructor?
But in order to do that wouldn't the ACTING PIC have to be an instructor?
drunkenbeagle
Gang Member
Re: CFI's - Have you ever told a student you don't want to f
The question only asks about the last 2 years I believe.
The question only asks about the last 2 years I believe.
drunkenbeagle
Gang Member
Re: CFI's - Have you ever told a student you don't want to f
No, why would they? To act as PIC you just have to be in the aircraft. Absolutely nothing wrong with an acting PIC allowing someone else to take the controls.
I do it all the time giving intro rides, even when I wasn't a CFI.
Much of my x-country PIC and instrument PIC time was done without an instructor. I just flew with a friend who had an instrument rating and filed IFR. I did the flying. He acted PIC. Often times IMC and in HP/Complex aircraft I didn't have an endorsement for. Totally, 100% legal.
No, why would they? To act as PIC you just have to be in the aircraft. Absolutely nothing wrong with an acting PIC allowing someone else to take the controls.
I do it all the time giving intro rides, even when I wasn't a CFI.
Much of my x-country PIC and instrument PIC time was done without an instructor. I just flew with a friend who had an instrument rating and filed IFR. I did the flying. He acted PIC. Often times IMC and in HP/Complex aircraft I didn't have an endorsement for. Totally, 100% legal.
Pilotforhire587
Lycra Man
Re: CFI's - Have you ever told a student you don't want to f
I see your point. I had always looked at IMC for IFR training and the rest differently but I guess they can be looked at the same.
I see your point. I had always looked at IMC for IFR training and the rest differently but I guess they can be looked at the same.
drunkenbeagle
Gang Member
Re: CFI's - Have you ever told a student you don't want to f
And don't overspeed the prop!
I think I probably had 100 "retractable" or "constant speed prop" hours when I got a complex endorsement. It took 30 minutes.
Technically, you can fly a constant speed prop retractable single if it didn't have flaps. Which makes me think it is a rather pointless endorsement.
And don't overspeed the prop!
I think I probably had 100 "retractable" or "constant speed prop" hours when I got a complex endorsement. It took 30 minutes.
Technically, you can fly a constant speed prop retractable single if it didn't have flaps. Which makes me think it is a rather pointless endorsement.