Avantair down in MI

I know the plane has had issues with the anti-skid, or a lack of anti skid or something like that.

Glad to hear everyone is OK.
 
Boris Badenov said:
uh. Hmm. 27 closed or something?
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If you listen to the audio (you lazy punk), you'll hear that they were cleared to land on 27, but apparently didn't line up with the right runway. When the controller asked them what they were doing, they said their gyros weren't indicating correctly. They were then cleared to land on any runway.
 
This could end up being quite an interesting accident. I'm glad that everybody got out alright, but wonder how the whole legal thing will work out. This is the first big accident, in my memory, where a fractional plane went down. They got extremely lucky that they didn't crash and burn. I remember in college that my Aviation Law prof was saying that it will be interesting when something does happen because who actually owns the airplane and who would get sued.
 
[video=youtube;xs_ZpvdB5sY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xs_ZpvdB5sY&feature=player_embedded[/video]
 
jhugz said:
Anyone that flies this bad mamajama, does it have hydraulic NWS?
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It's the same electric system as old Lears. Very twitchy. Great flying plane, major PITA to taxi.

ChasenSFO said:
Ouch, lucky no fire broke out. But everyone survived, and that's what mattered in the long run. Is this the first crash of a Piaggio? Haven't heard of one prior to this.
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Yup, first semi-serious accident (at least in the US). Nothing worse than simple over-runs before this.

traumachicken said:
engine failure at touchdown? break failure? seems weird. Glad no one bought the farm.
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Nope, engine failure/secured in flight, OEI landing. No reason to suspect break failure...the brakes on that thing are pretty simple.

gne in prog said:
They had one gear up at Khpn after a gear unsafe indication, but I haven't heard of other crashes.
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There have been a small handfull of gearups/gear collapses, and a few over-runs and side-excursions, but nothing worse than that in the US.

scooter2525 said:
Guy in my FS class flew those and said engine outs can get sketchy without autofeather on take off. Can't imagine its much better on landing.
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Any turbo-prop with a negative autofeather(or auto-coarsen) on takeoff is going to be a handful. Piaggio is no worse than any other (and easier than some). AFX has little to do with landing, and nothing to do with landing with an already secured engine. OEI landings in the plane are no big deal (under normal conditions).

middies10 said:
Sounds like he landed on 36/18. Would have had a bit of crosswind. It might have been a contributing factor.
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Crosswind makes a normal landing in this thing quite...sporty. Narrow wheel base and creative NWS...

TFaudree_ERAU said:
The failure didn't happen on landing. It sounded like an enroute/descent failure. Plenty of time to get it trimmed up and flying straight.

I'd say the wind played a large role in it. I read elsewhere that they landed on 36.
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Precisely. I'd agree completely (knowing nothing beyond what's in the article and my experience with the plane).

OldTownPilot said:
I know the plane has had issues with the anti-skid, or a lack of anti skid or something like that.

Glad to hear everyone is OK.
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The anti-skid is a recurring problem...they didn't install it. Add to that carbon brakes, the fact that you can't use full reverse, and a crosswind...it definitely has to be flown all the way to the blocks.
 
Teller1900 said:
Any turbo-prop with a negative autofeather(or auto-coarsen) on takeoff is going to be a handful. Piaggio is no worse than any other (and easier than some). AFX has little to do with landing, and nothing to do with landing with an already secured engine. OEI landings in the plane are no big deal (under normal conditions).
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Good to know. I didn't know what the aerodynamics would be with the engines in the back and what not. Glad it worked out, for the most part, for these guys.
 
TFaudree_ERAU said:
they were cleared to land on 27, but apparently didn't line up with the right runway. When the controller asked them what they were doing, they said their gyros weren't indicating correctly. They were then cleared to land on any runway.
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I wonder if their mag compass was indicating correctly.

I keed. Glad everyone was ok.
 
ryanmickG said:
Maybe he retracted the flaps in the flare. hmm
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They probably never had them all the way down to begin with!
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TFaudree_ERAU said:
If you listen to the audio (you lazy punk), you'll hear that they were cleared to land on 27, but apparently didn't line up with the right runway. When the controller asked them what they were doing, they said their gyros weren't indicating correctly. They were then cleared to land on any runway.
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Wow sounds like everything went haywire at once. Hopefully the controller used proper phraseology or they'll try and pin it on them.
 
Heh, well it did sound like she wanted no part in any potential hot-potato-type issues. "Uh, we're not sure which way we're pointing" "Yeah, but you see the airport right? Cleared to land wherever, good luck, call me when it's over!" ;)
 
TFaudree_ERAU said:
They probably never had them all the way down to begin with!
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Flaps mid approach for single engine landing per p-180 checklist. Sounds like the holes in the swiss cheese lined up to create a very unfortunate event (single engine/tower misunderstanding?/gyro or PFD fail?/stiff crosswind/unknowns...)
 
Gators said:
Flaps mid approach for single engine landing per p-180 checklist. Sounds like the holes in the swiss cheese lined up to create a very unfortunate event (single engine/tower misunderstanding?/gyro or PFD fail?/stiff crosswind/unknowns...)
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I think it's WAY too early to make any assumptions like that. If I recall correctly, the Piaggio has PL 21 avionics with dual AHRS, and I'd imagine at least one of them is on the Emergency bus if there was a major electrical failure (which in itself would be unusual for a simple engine failure on a turbine aircraft). There are a lot of strange things with this accident, which will likely take some time to fully understand.
 
GypsyPilot said:
I think it's WAY too early to make any assumptions like that. If I recall correctly, the Piaggio has PL 21 avionics with dual AHRS, and I'd imagine at least one of them is on the Emergency bus if there was a major electrical failure (which in itself would be unusual for a simple engine failure on a turbine aircraft). There are a lot of strange things with this accident, which will likely take some time to fully understand.
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...I was just pointing out in the audio tape of the tower communication at KFNT the pilot stated they had gyro/instrument indication problems. I was not making the assumption on my own. Not sure what exactly happen and I would never try to play monday morning quarterback. Just pointing out some facts. Proline 21 yes indeed
 
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