SpiceWeasel
Tre Kronor
I've been told we're not allowed to have any form of online communication? ie Reps are banned from having accounts here or APC... Truth/Rumor? Or are we just not allowed to discuss union matters?
9E/9L/XJ Reps and Social Media
- Thread starter SpiceWeasel
- Start date
SpiceWeasel
Tre Kronor
*RUMOR*: The reasoning is that during the MEC election, it was agreed that the MEC would be the centralized point for ALL communications. So, if you as an LEC want to send something to your pilots, you have to send it to the MEC for approval.
Time for a recall if so.
The problem is that effective communication in a union sometimes requires alternative methods. Primarily "official" communications, yes, but I think they forget most of the efforts at organization have started right here on the aviation internet and other social media avenues, ask any Colganite.
Besides, National's communication machine is a little "Franco-Prussian War" era.
jynxyjoe
Queso King
Recall hu? Nah.
I think some history on the situation may be appropriate, keep in mind this is all second hand, I'm not a rep and I don't speak for them, I wasn't here in '04.
We had a union guys preaching truth to power during the scamruptcy on the interwebz and it got thrown back in our face at the negotiating table. It was agreed, for the sake of presenting a united front to the company, that reps would refrain from jabbering online. Actually my Grandpa would say it's common sense, "those who know don't speak and those who speak don't know". That mentality has continued since '04ish from what I've been able to gather.
At any point you wish to call a rep and get an answer to a question you can. I've never got anything but solid responses during our guys with the request we keep it off the webz.
CEWLGUY
Well-Known Member
I agree with Jynx, it seems like common sense in this new world of instant communication. When a Rep speaks, the pilots, management and the NMB all take it as an official statement or stance from the union. That means that a post here on this website can be used at the negotiating table, or at an bad-faith hearing with the labor department.
Some topics are best left to phone calls.
Some topics are best left to phone calls.
SpiceWeasel
Tre Kronor
I can see this both ways. In this day and age of social media - I would love to have an additional medium for communication. I also think that, since this is a public medium, it is a great platform. I dislike getting "private" answers when it involves company or union politics.
That said, being responsible as a rep is tougher with an easy to access medium.
I suppose in the absence of reps on line, we can get answers over the phone and publish them to the rest of the pilot group on the interwebz
That said, being responsible as a rep is tougher with an easy to access medium.
I suppose in the absence of reps on line, we can get answers over the phone and publish them to the rest of the pilot group on the interwebz
jynxyjoe
Queso King
Number one complaint for pro stands (at this company anyway) for years running is some sort of social media gripe. Someone mouths off or blasts a crew member and it gets back to them. It's estimated by the last prostands guy that it is 80% of the complaints.
If the union isn't communicating at all that's one thing, Mesaba has never had that trouble in my experience. The closest things I've heard is something like this:
"Why won't the union respond to _____! *roar!*"
"They did on the hotline, did you have more questions than that?"
"I don't get that damn hotline anymore!"
"Well just call _____ or ______, I can give you their numbers. They want to know if you have questions."
"I'm not calling those ________! They are the ones causing all this trouble!"
I got... no dukes.
WIPilot
Well-Known Member
I couldnt disagree more. Internet forums have their time and place...but releasing official union information isnt one of them.
Well, lemme clarify.
Perhaps "recall" was a little strong.
Now the social media is another avenue of communications and depending on the methods used, far more effective than memos, LEC meetings and the needs to die quick death phonetree.
Here's a classic example. Council 66 which I'm a part of uses SMS, Facebook and the traditional communications methods. About the only people who check the union forums are conspiracy nuts or people involved in the cesspool of circular arguments and the I gots SKROOD IN DA MERGER types.
So if there's something that's of importance that is time critical, I'm going to hear about it quickly using alternative methods.
The communication technology genie is out of the bottle and down at the Waffle House ordering hash browns six ways and either you capture it, or pretend it doesn't exist and get left in the dirt.
Perhaps "recall" was a little strong.
Now the social media is another avenue of communications and depending on the methods used, far more effective than memos, LEC meetings and the needs to die quick death phonetree.
Here's a classic example. Council 66 which I'm a part of uses SMS, Facebook and the traditional communications methods. About the only people who check the union forums are conspiracy nuts or people involved in the cesspool of circular arguments and the I gots SKROOD IN DA MERGER types.
So if there's something that's of importance that is time critical, I'm going to hear about it quickly using alternative methods.
The communication technology genie is out of the bottle and down at the Waffle House ordering hash browns six ways and either you capture it, or pretend it doesn't exist and get left in the dirt.
dingo222
Well-Known Member
I think there is a time and place for union updates on non-union sites, but I don't know that it would be good as an official medium. At the national level, prostans has had problems with company webboards or social media sites. Those problems stemmed from members though, not reps. When in doubt, if you wouldn't say it in person, you shouldn't be saying it online. CJC has never had a prostans problem with posting on other sites, and several of our reps are online here and other sites.
SpiceWeasel
Tre Kronor
Well that could end up being a problem. Reps shouldn't be going against the MEC "one voice" policy and answering questions as union reps on web boards, according to the MEC.
DTW is already in hot water over this.
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
Oddly, most of the union info I've gotten in the past several years has been over some of the internet forums. Some of the info post-JCBA came from Colgan guys. Without those post on the forums, I would have been one of the last to know....
Seggy
Well-Known Member
Wow, that got REALLY twisted. Give me a call and I will explain...
CAPIP1998
Well-Known Member
Here's the truth, the problem was never with the reps. We just needed a plausible policy to keep SEGGY from posting on the webz. He was always the source of the problems. Clearly it's working since he's asking for a private chat instead of just posting away!
(Seggy, don't worry. We still love ya!)
sherpa
Well-Known Member
Here's the truth, the problem was never with the reps. We just needed a plausible policy to keep SEGGY from posting on the webz. He was always the source of the problems. Clearly it's working since he's asking for a private chat instead of just posting away!
(Seggy, don't worry. We still love ya!)
Howzdaleffseat?
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
Folks,
Communication is a two way street. ALPA National has worked VERY hard this year at improving various forms of communication tools, be it the ALPA Application, or a presence within most social media environments.
How every MEC decides to move forward is up to them, but what we have seen at ASA is a multi-faceted issued in regards to information transmission - in both directions.
You will always have that group of folks who will claim that their Union is not communicating either enough, or effectively (to their individual liking). However, when this occurs, it is extremely important to ask the probing questions as far as why they feel this way because in most cases, there is an honest to goodness issue at hand that needs to be addressed. Rather than toss them aside as just causing more work or merely complaining, it is imperative for the Reps and Committee Volunteers to dig deep and find out what exactly is this individuals issue that they need resolved. This requires your Reps and Committee Volunteers to be trained in public speaking and conflict resolution, to some extent. If your MEC has a Pilot-2-Pilot Committee, then this is where you begin. You engage your volunteers with information, you give them the communication tools needed to resolve conflicts and find the issues that are causing them. All Status Reps receive similar training and your Communication specialists and Chairman, Vice Chair and P2P Chairman all should work together to assist the MEC and LECs in improving communication and making the communications timely, and informative for the issues at hand.
Communication is a two-way street. Information has to come in for the MEC to respond to, or an LEC in some cases. Without input from the pilot group, your MEC, LEC, and Communication teams are left with guessing at what the problems may be or addressing the same issues on a regular occurrence.
Social Media can be a very valuable tool in an MEC's communication toolkit, but it has to be used properly. Social Media being officially approved MEC avenues for communication - be it a Facebook page (re: Not Group), Twitter account, Flickr, etc. These tools, coupled with the primary means of information dissemination will only aid in the timely movement of content and information through the pilot group.
Many of us around here are involved with Union work on various levels. Many of us are very mindful of what we say, and perhaps more importantly - how we say it.
There are official avenues of communication, and unofficial. Every volunteer has to realize that certain information has a time and place, and that place may very well NOT be on a web forum for public viewing. If there is an issue, then it is clearly up to the individual MECs to establish procedures on how to handle such.
A unified voice is extremely important in maintaining message integrity folks. That can not be stressed enough.
Communication is a two way street. ALPA National has worked VERY hard this year at improving various forms of communication tools, be it the ALPA Application, or a presence within most social media environments.
How every MEC decides to move forward is up to them, but what we have seen at ASA is a multi-faceted issued in regards to information transmission - in both directions.
You will always have that group of folks who will claim that their Union is not communicating either enough, or effectively (to their individual liking). However, when this occurs, it is extremely important to ask the probing questions as far as why they feel this way because in most cases, there is an honest to goodness issue at hand that needs to be addressed. Rather than toss them aside as just causing more work or merely complaining, it is imperative for the Reps and Committee Volunteers to dig deep and find out what exactly is this individuals issue that they need resolved. This requires your Reps and Committee Volunteers to be trained in public speaking and conflict resolution, to some extent. If your MEC has a Pilot-2-Pilot Committee, then this is where you begin. You engage your volunteers with information, you give them the communication tools needed to resolve conflicts and find the issues that are causing them. All Status Reps receive similar training and your Communication specialists and Chairman, Vice Chair and P2P Chairman all should work together to assist the MEC and LECs in improving communication and making the communications timely, and informative for the issues at hand.
Communication is a two-way street. Information has to come in for the MEC to respond to, or an LEC in some cases. Without input from the pilot group, your MEC, LEC, and Communication teams are left with guessing at what the problems may be or addressing the same issues on a regular occurrence.
Social Media can be a very valuable tool in an MEC's communication toolkit, but it has to be used properly. Social Media being officially approved MEC avenues for communication - be it a Facebook page (re: Not Group), Twitter account, Flickr, etc. These tools, coupled with the primary means of information dissemination will only aid in the timely movement of content and information through the pilot group.
Many of us around here are involved with Union work on various levels. Many of us are very mindful of what we say, and perhaps more importantly - how we say it.
There are official avenues of communication, and unofficial. Every volunteer has to realize that certain information has a time and place, and that place may very well NOT be on a web forum for public viewing. If there is an issue, then it is clearly up to the individual MECs to establish procedures on how to handle such.
A unified voice is extremely important in maintaining message integrity folks. That can not be stressed enough.