91K/135 or 121?

Aviator_Bakeek

Aviator_Bakeek

Well-Known Member
I am in a personal dilemma. Hoping some of you can provide your pro's, con's and thoughts from your experiences working in the aviation industry.

As some of you know, I work for Great Lakes. Obviously not a career place. I came here to get time and make a steady paycheck, I was hoping I could hold out to make it to upgrade...but I won't be able to. It was definitely still a good choice since it was a guaranteed paycheck and experience as opposed to hoping for students or ferry flight jobs. I like flying at Lakes but in May I will have some major increases in my financial situation and I will not be able to afford that on the Lakes pay.

I have some options I feel good about. A few in 91K/135 and a few in 121. I am really torn, I don't know how to figure out where I want to end up since I can think of equally weighted pro's and con's between 91K/135 and 121.

Again, hopefully y'all can give me some more things to think about. I won't have to make my decision any time in the immediate future, but I want to make the right one. Please feel free to share how you got into your current career or came to the decision of which track was right for you.

Thanks!
 
Aviator_Bakeek said:
I am in a personal dilemma. Hoping some of you can provide your pro's, con's and thoughts from your experiences working in the aviation industry.

As some of you know, I work for Great Lakes. Obviously not a career place. I came here to get time and make a steady paycheck, I was hoping I could hold out to make it to upgrade...but I won't be able to. It was definitely still a good choice since it was a guaranteed paycheck and experience as opposed to hoping for students or ferry flight jobs. I like flying at Lakes but in May I will have some major increases in my financial situation and I will not be able to afford that on the Lakes pay.

I have some options I feel good about. A few in 91K/135 and a few in 121. I am really torn, I don't know how to figure out where I want to end up since I can think of equally weighted pro's and con's between 91K/135 and 121.

Again, hopefully y'all can give me some more things to think about. I won't have to make my decision any time in the immediate future, but I want to make the right one. Please feel free to share how you got into your current career or came to the decision of which track was right for you.

Thanks!
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While no one can answer the question for you, I think about three things when looking for a job. Stability is always number 1. Yeah, it's hard to find that in aviation, but with that said, some companies in aviation are still more stable than others. Number 2 is QOL. And number three is the paycheck. I have found out exactly what I can do with very little money and survive with a family.

Consider the three of those when you jump ship.
 
My current 135 company has me on a scheduled run and on call when not flying; I can always say no to the charter, though.
I like the perks of 121 mainly for the set schedule and days off a month. I will be interviewing with a 121 carrier in the near future.

However, YMMV. Good luck to you.
 
QOL is very important to me because I have a family. I base QOL on how much time I have off and how much money I have to enjoy that time off with. Having a family and being a pilot, I know I am going to miss things but, when I am home I want to take the family places and come home to a house in good repair. Stability is very important, which is what makes me nervous with both operations.
 
mshunter said:
While no one can answer the question for you, I think about three things when looking for a job. Stability is always number 1. Yeah, it's hard to find that in aviation, but with that said, some companies in aviation are still more stable than others. Number 2 is QOL. And number three is the paycheck. I have found out exactly what I can do with very little money and survive with a family.

Consider the three of those when you jump ship.
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What kind of flying are you doing now? How do you like it?
 
If you can get a great 91 gig don't pass it up. If you can get a good 135 gig don't pass it up. If you can get an average 121 (major) gig don't pass it up.

There are less rule in 91 ops it can be the best or worst job ever. A few more rule sin 135, still trying to make a profit though, can really suck or only kind of suck. Part 121 you pretty much know what you are getting into, just read the forums and avoid the bottom feeders.
 
My .02

I'm working 91k/135 right now, 7\7 schedule. I'm not flying the biggest airplane, or the fastest, but it's a lot of fun. On my 7 on, anything goes. Airlining to get an airplane, day trips etc. We do more sitting than flying though most of the time. This past week I did easy 2-3 leg trips, where we'd drop off pax, wait 4-6hrs for them to do their business, then take them to their next destination, or back home. On your 7 off, they can't touch you, all they can do is ask you if you're interested in overtime. In my opinion, you can't beat the schedule. I had 15 days off in October, which is usually the norm. There's no bidding for schedule, so the trips you get are all random and based on company needs. You never know where you're going (which is one thing I love). Everything from JFK to a grass strip, and the QOL is good. I live 10 min from base, and enjoy a full week to myself when I'm not working. If you have a family, I can't really think of a better schedule.
 
Mark815 said:
My .02

I'm working 91k/135 right now, 7\7 schedule. I'm not flying the biggest airplane, or the fastest, but it's a lot of fun. On my 7 on, anything goes. Airlining to get an airplane, day trips etc. We do more sitting than flying though most of the time. This past week I did easy 2-3 leg trips, where we'd drop off pax, wait 4-6hrs for them to do their business, then take them to their next destination, or back home. On your 7 off, they can't touch you, all they can do is ask you if you're interested in overtime. In my opinion, you can't beat the schedule. I had 15 days off in October, which is usually the norm. There's no bidding for schedule, so the trips you get are all random and based on company needs. You never know where you're going (which is one thing I love). Everything from JFK to a grass strip, and the QOL is good. I live 10 min from base, and enjoy a full week to myself when I'm not working. If you have a family, I can't really think of a better schedule.
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That sounds like the place I really want to go and have an application at...just waiting for an interview. Are you flying the PC-12?
 
FlyingScot said:
If you can get a great 91 gig don't pass it up. If you can get a good 135 gig don't pass it up. If you can get an average 121 (major) gig don't pass it up.

There are less rule in 91 ops it can be the best or worst job ever. A few more rule sin 135, still trying to make a profit though, can really suck or only kind of suck. Part 121 you pretty much know what you are getting into, just read the forums and avoid the bottom feeders.
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This is exactly what I was going to say.
 
FlyingScot said:
If you can get a great 91 gig don't pass it up. If you can get a good 135 gig don't pass it up. If you can get an average 121 (major) gig don't pass it up.

There are less rule in 91 ops it can be the best or worst job ever. A few more rule sin 135, still trying to make a profit though, can really suck or only kind of suck. Part 121 you pretty much know what you are getting into, just read the forums and avoid the bottom feeders.
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Who/What is an "average" 121? What defines a "good 135 gig"?
 
Aviator_Bakeek said:
Who/What is an "average" 121? What defines a "good 135 gig"?
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bad 135: GTA Air
Average 135: Martinaire (I worked there for a bit)
Good 135: Ameriflight or most FedEx feeders

but more importantly, good to bad depends on personal situations of pay, QOL, location, room to upgrade (equip/right seat)

Preston...do you have 135 mins yet? if not your best shot is a 121 gig right now...i wouldn't suspect it be not that hard with your previous/current 121 time in a 1900.
 
CFIT99 said:
bad 135: GTA Air
Average 135: Martinaire (I worked there for a bit)
Good 135: Ameriflight or most FedEx feeders

but more importantly, good to bad depends on personal situations of pay, QOL, location, room to upgrade (equip/right seat)

Preston...do you have 135 mins yet? if not your best shot is a 121 gig right now...i wouldn't suspect it be not that hard with your previous/current 121 time in a 1900.
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I think you need to raise you standards a lot. Good 135 doesn't fly for ups... and probably doesn't fly freight.
 
z987k said:
I think you need to raise you standards a lot. Good 135 doesn't fly for ups... and probably doesn't fly freight.
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i knew I would have someone come out and say that...

...agree for the most part...not all UPS feeders a bad...some are ok and maybe even a little good (depending on your situation)...I was giving examples of large companies...sure there are tons of smaller 135 companies...but c'mon!
 
z987k said:
I think you need to raise you standards a lot. Good 135 doesn't fly for ups... and probably doesn't fly freight.
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+1

If you are young, single and want to fly, upgrade quickly, get some time and get out, flying freight is a good stepping stone. If you have a family, want a life or want future growth go elsewhere.

If Martinaire is average, I would hate to see what it is like to work for GTA. I worked side by side with a Martinaire pilot, I was embarrassed by his pay, and his schedule sucked even worse than mine. He had to fight just to get a day off after months of working 5 days a week. While fedex runs tend to have better schedule, pay and equipment, they also tend to fly caravans which do not provide the best career building flight time.

Good 135s are usually charter. The 7/7 schedule would rock. To get that schedule you need more than one crew per plane. Otherwise you can be on call 24/7, 365. I was offered a 135 job that required 2 weeks on the road each month, then you were on call the rest of the month when you got back. Averaging 25 days a month of flying. There is not enough money for that schedule, certainly not for $40k they were offering. I would consider a 135 gig that had a 3 hour call out, and flew on average 10-12 days a month. Any more demands I would keep looking.

As far as 121 operators ratings, just do a search. If you find a long post in the forums with employees bad mouthing the company. It's probably not going to be a good place to work.
 
CFIT99 said:
bad 135: GTA Air
Average 135: Martinaire (I worked there for a bit)
Good 135: Ameriflight or most FedEx feeders

but more importantly, good to bad depends on personal situations of pay, QOL, location, room to upgrade (equip/right seat)

Preston...do you have 135 mins yet? if not your best shot is a 121 gig right now...i wouldn't suspect it be not that hard with your previous/current 121 time in a 1900.
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I have about 200 hours to go for 135 mins. Martinaire interests me. Eagle just sent me an interview offer, so I will probably take that. But, I think that I really want to fly for Alpha Flying...if they come out with a pay scale it could turn into a long term place to stay.

Thats the tough thing though about my decision, each job has its individual things that interests me. Travel privileges, pay scale, and relative stability at Eagle. Great Schedule, acceptable pay, fun airplane, and relatively satisfied pilots at Alpha. I am having a hard time deciding since both are appealing in different ways.
 
CFIT99 said:
bad 135: GTA Air
Average 135: Martinaire (I worked there for a bit)
Good 135: Ameriflight or most FedEx feeders

but more importantly, good to bad depends on personal situations of pay, QOL, location, room to upgrade (equip/right seat)

Preston...do you have 135 mins yet? if not your best shot is a 121 gig right now...i wouldn't suspect it be not that hard with your previous/current 121 time in a 1900.
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Hey now, GTA is not that bad. I worked there for 9 months or so and came out the other side. Based on my time there, I'd put them on roughly the same level as Martex, pay is the same, the schedule is the same, the runs are similar, Martex has turbine while GTA has (some) twins. I heard some terrible rumors about GTA before going in, but I also knew 3 or 4 that also survived and I never was subjected to the things I was warned about.

With all that said, I love it here at Alpha - by far my best flying job yet. There seems to be some pretty high levels of attrition here, along with some pretty bitter folks. I've tried to fathom why people are unhappy here, and I have two possible reasons. Firstly, by the sounds of things, life at Alpha may well have been a better place to work (pay cuts/freeze and scheduling/standby issues). Also, and probably to a lesser degree, it seems a large number of Alpha pilots have never worked at the Bad/Average/Good type of place listed above. In short they don't know how good they have it.
 
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