Even pilot blames JetBlue for 7 hours of tarmac time.....
- Thread starter TallFlyer
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Blackhawk
Well-Known Member
jtrain609 said:
But why should it matter? Would someone need to work at the airline to say that justice should prevail? Not mob justice, but justice based upon facts gathered through an investigation.
I've been around long enough to see innocent people and corporations vilified through the media and a mob frenzy mentality that I like to insist on seeing the facts before we rush to judgement. Ive seen botched airline and military operations where the initial bad guy turned out to be innocent. I've seen accidents where everyone initially jumped on the pilots only to find it was not their fault.
If FACTS show that JetBlue dropped the ball on this then the law is clear and they should face the fine. If FACTS show that the airport management dropped the ball there should be repercussions or changes to their operations. If FACTS show that this was a result of a freak October blizzard and little could have been done differently then we should gather what lessons can be learned and move on. But why don't we wait for the facts instead of using this incident to defame an airline we may not like but may be innocent?
Gonzo
Well-Known Member
Re: Even pilot blames JetBlue for 7 hours of tarmac time....
There is a lot we don't know. I know at the airline I work at every outstation has a max number of diverted flights it can take. I what to know was the crew told to go to BDL by a dispatcher or did they just pick it or was that their filed alternate. I know I have had to divert with not help from dispatch and it didn't end up good. We landed at an airport we felt would be good to see 4 AA planes and 4 other Eagle planes at an airport with two gates.
There is a lot we don't know. I know at the airline I work at every outstation has a max number of diverted flights it can take. I what to know was the crew told to go to BDL by a dispatcher or did they just pick it or was that their filed alternate. I know I have had to divert with not help from dispatch and it didn't end up good. We landed at an airport we felt would be good to see 4 AA planes and 4 other Eagle planes at an airport with two gates.
pullup
Homewrecker
I'm pretty sure it's third party.
SpiceWeasel
Tre Kronor
Re: Even pilot blames JetBlue for 7 hours of tarmac time....
Regarding de-ice. It must vary, airline to airline.
Sioux Falls - we needed to be de-iced, and pushed back. Well, we couldn't push back until one of the ramp crew grabbed the de-ice truck. So... clearly, Regional Elite runs de-ice for DELTA in FSD. Same with Buffalo...
When I talk to the de-ice folks at some of the airports, it is on the same frequency as company ops. Maybe you guys at XJT just run things differently. But to characterize it as "it's ALWAYS this way" is silly.
Regarding de-ice. It must vary, airline to airline.
Sioux Falls - we needed to be de-iced, and pushed back. Well, we couldn't push back until one of the ramp crew grabbed the de-ice truck. So... clearly, Regional Elite runs de-ice for DELTA in FSD. Same with Buffalo...
When I talk to the de-ice folks at some of the airports, it is on the same frequency as company ops. Maybe you guys at XJT just run things differently. But to characterize it as "it's ALWAYS this way" is silly.
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
Re: Even pilot blames JetBlue for 7 hours of tarmac time....
Facts are skewed by a persons experience.
If you've never been up front when this kind of stuff happens, it's hard to make "objective," "factual" determinations of what did or did not happen, especially since you need to filter out superfluous reporting.
Facts are skewed by a persons experience.
If you've never been up front when this kind of stuff happens, it's hard to make "objective," "factual" determinations of what did or did not happen, especially since you need to filter out superfluous reporting.
Blackhawk
Well-Known Member
Re: Even pilot blames JetBlue for 7 hours of tarmac time....
I've been up front, and as I'm sure you have, I've seen messed up operations where the airline was at fault; I've seen messed up operations that appeared to be the airline's fault but were the fault of the airport authorities; and I've seen messed up operations that were just caused by nature, there was really not much that we could do but keep everyone safe and as comfortable as possible. We don't really know yet which kind of event this was.
I agree. Almost every NTSB investigation has disagreements. Everyone sees the same facts, but comes to different conclusions based upon personal experience. Still, they try to sort out facts as best as they can as objectively as they can. Right now all I read are emotional responses.
I've been up front, and as I'm sure you have, I've seen messed up operations where the airline was at fault; I've seen messed up operations that appeared to be the airline's fault but were the fault of the airport authorities; and I've seen messed up operations that were just caused by nature, there was really not much that we could do but keep everyone safe and as comfortable as possible. We don't really know yet which kind of event this was.
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
Re: Even pilot blames JetBlue for 7 hours of tarmac time....
I have no idea what you are getting so bent out of shape about, but it's all good.
At BDL deice is run by the airlines, or maybe their parent company if it's one of the commuters. There is a third party deicing provided by one of the FBOs. I don't know if JetBlue has their own or uses the FBOs. As far as fuel... normally it's a third party (NOT run by the town/city whatever). In fact, I can only think of two airports that I regularly operate into (out of about 50) where the fuel comes from the airport.
I'd talk about ignorance and what not, but you seem to have had that lecture covered already.
I have no idea what you are getting so bent out of shape about, but it's all good.
At BDL deice is run by the airlines, or maybe their parent company if it's one of the commuters. There is a third party deicing provided by one of the FBOs. I don't know if JetBlue has their own or uses the FBOs. As far as fuel... normally it's a third party (NOT run by the town/city whatever). In fact, I can only think of two airports that I regularly operate into (out of about 50) where the fuel comes from the airport.
I'd talk about ignorance and what not, but you seem to have had that lecture covered already.
Blackhawk
Well-Known Member
Re: Even pilot blames JetBlue for 7 hours of tarmac time....
For the 15th time:
1. People throwing blame around when the facts are not known. In some instances their blame game seems to have more to do with a dislike of the airline involved rather than actually finding out who- if anyone- is at fault. Yeah, this really pisses me off. Google Mike Pressler. He was a team mate of mine in college and my fraternity big brother. I guess I'm just silly about that. I don't like to see people or organizations railroaded by a mob mentality. Even if it is unpopular I will stick up for right of the accused to be innocent until proven guilty.
2. People making statements that may or may not be factual. Such as "All ground support is handled by the airlines". This is not necessarily true, so to lay the blame for everything that happened on the ground at Bradley on the lap of JetBlue may well not be justified.
3. People making assumptions when they don't know the facts. Such as assuming that JetBlue should have known that things were going to get bad at Bradley before the airplanes diverted there. We have no idea based upon the facts that are currently available to the general public what the chain of events was at Bradley, what alternates were available, etc. Currently the Bradley Airport authorities are clamming up and giving the "No comment" to questions, so it really is tough to get a time line.
4. People making Monday morning quarterback statements that border on the absurd. Such as proposing the evacuation of the passengers, to include infants, toddlers and elderly, some of whom may not have had warm cloths (this flight did come from Florida), down evacuation slides into a blinding blizzard with questionable ground support available. I really wonder if some of these statements are made by student pilots or people who once read a book about being an airline pilot.
5. Other absurd statements. Such as "My airport has one snow plow and sees maybe 1/2" of snow a year (just the rumor of which causes the city to shut down), but we would have handled a blizzard dumping 32" of snow much better than Bradley."
For the 15th time:
1. People throwing blame around when the facts are not known. In some instances their blame game seems to have more to do with a dislike of the airline involved rather than actually finding out who- if anyone- is at fault. Yeah, this really pisses me off. Google Mike Pressler. He was a team mate of mine in college and my fraternity big brother. I guess I'm just silly about that. I don't like to see people or organizations railroaded by a mob mentality. Even if it is unpopular I will stick up for right of the accused to be innocent until proven guilty.
2. People making statements that may or may not be factual. Such as "All ground support is handled by the airlines". This is not necessarily true, so to lay the blame for everything that happened on the ground at Bradley on the lap of JetBlue may well not be justified.
3. People making assumptions when they don't know the facts. Such as assuming that JetBlue should have known that things were going to get bad at Bradley before the airplanes diverted there. We have no idea based upon the facts that are currently available to the general public what the chain of events was at Bradley, what alternates were available, etc. Currently the Bradley Airport authorities are clamming up and giving the "No comment" to questions, so it really is tough to get a time line.
4. People making Monday morning quarterback statements that border on the absurd. Such as proposing the evacuation of the passengers, to include infants, toddlers and elderly, some of whom may not have had warm cloths (this flight did come from Florida), down evacuation slides into a blinding blizzard with questionable ground support available. I really wonder if some of these statements are made by student pilots or people who once read a book about being an airline pilot.
5. Other absurd statements. Such as "My airport has one snow plow and sees maybe 1/2" of snow a year (just the rumor of which causes the city to shut down), but we would have handled a blizzard dumping 32" of snow much better than Bradley."
RDoug
Well-Known Member
Re: Even pilot blames JetBlue for 7 hours of tarmac time....
I know I said I was done here, but I'm getting really tired of seeing this lie repeated. That is not what was said or even implied.
You may now go back to trolling.
I know I said I was done here, but I'm getting really tired of seeing this lie repeated. That is not what was said or even implied.
You may now go back to trolling.
Blackhawk
Well-Known Member
Re: Even pilot blames JetBlue for 7 hours of tarmac time....
"Well, speaking from personal experience (I was working Ground Control during 9/11), all I can say is we had diverted aircraft parked EVERYWHERE, well beyond ANYTHING KELP was designed to handle. Passengers were deplaned within minutes, not hours, and bused to the terminal."
And another dig at JetBlue- must be their fault:
"First, the temperatures dropped well below 20°, dropping at one point down to -1°. Second, the temperature didn't get much above 20° for four straight days. Third, thank you for making my point—nobody at El Paso sat on the ramp with passengers for even one hour, let alone seven, and nobody in the past has done so even when the airport was shut down for snow."
Not your exact words, but close to your intent:
"Well, speaking from personal experience (I was working Ground Control during 9/11), all I can say is we had diverted aircraft parked EVERYWHERE, well beyond ANYTHING KELP was designed to handle. Passengers were deplaned within minutes, not hours, and bused to the terminal."
And another dig at JetBlue- must be their fault:
"First, the temperatures dropped well below 20°, dropping at one point down to -1°. Second, the temperature didn't get much above 20° for four straight days. Third, thank you for making my point—nobody at El Paso sat on the ramp with passengers for even one hour, let alone seven, and nobody in the past has done so even when the airport was shut down for snow."
Blackhawk
Well-Known Member
Re: Even pilot blames JetBlue for 7 hours of tarmac time....
Oh, and for the record, if you look I did not get pissy until someone made the remark, "I can't believe someone is actually defending this." Probably what lynch mobs said when someone tried to stick up for the person being hanged.
Oh, and for the record, if you look I did not get pissy until someone made the remark, "I can't believe someone is actually defending this." Probably what lynch mobs said when someone tried to stick up for the person being hanged.
RDoug
Well-Known Member
Re: Even pilot blames JetBlue for 7 hours of tarmac time....
Wow. All that and illiterate as well.
Good day, all.
Wow. All that and illiterate as well.
Good day, all.
Blackhawk
Well-Known Member
Re: Even pilot blames JetBlue for 7 hours of tarmac time....
How so? You implied that since you handled 9/11 you could surely handle what happened at Bradley. Am I not reading that right? Did I somehow distort what you wrote?
RDoug
Well-Known Member
Re: Even pilot blames JetBlue for 7 hours of tarmac time....
And forgetful as well as illiterate:
At no point did I say anything about being able to handle 32" of snow . . . other than your imagination.
Look, dude, I can do this all day. However, I find it boring to deal with an obvious troll. Do yourself a favor, quit intentionally attributing to me things I did not say, did not imply, and to anyone who is otherwise literate and who can both read and comprehend English, obviously did not intend in any way, shape or form. I bowed out of this conversation a while back because of the obvious trolling, and yet you insist upon continuing the digs and deliberate misinterpretations. If you didn't want to get called out on this stuff, you should have left it alone and let it all go when I said I was done with it.
As you're going to insist upon having the last word (all trolls do), you may do so now. I've made my point and I will not be revisiting this again, so by all means feel free to keep it up now that I've let anyone who has been following this silliness know that the words being attributed to me are being intentionally manufactured.
And forgetful as well as illiterate:
At no point did I say anything about being able to handle 32" of snow . . . other than your imagination.
Look, dude, I can do this all day. However, I find it boring to deal with an obvious troll. Do yourself a favor, quit intentionally attributing to me things I did not say, did not imply, and to anyone who is otherwise literate and who can both read and comprehend English, obviously did not intend in any way, shape or form. I bowed out of this conversation a while back because of the obvious trolling, and yet you insist upon continuing the digs and deliberate misinterpretations. If you didn't want to get called out on this stuff, you should have left it alone and let it all go when I said I was done with it.
As you're going to insist upon having the last word (all trolls do), you may do so now. I've made my point and I will not be revisiting this again, so by all means feel free to keep it up now that I've let anyone who has been following this silliness know that the words being attributed to me are being intentionally manufactured.
inigo88
Composite-lover
Re: Even pilot blames JetBlue for 7 hours of tarmac time....
Wait a minute, as a long time JC reader I feel I have received conflicting information. Is JTrain in fact a racist south african white man, or Wyatt Cenac from the Daily Show?
Wait a minute, as a long time JC reader I feel I have received conflicting information. Is JTrain in fact a racist south african white man, or Wyatt Cenac from the Daily Show?