Is being a professional pilot really that bad?

EchoPapa

New Member
So I'm getting my ratings at university flight school and all I ever hear about professional aviation is how bad it is. Its always the same old song and dance. Horrible hours, poor pay, stressful job, and paying your dues in the regionals, 5/200 people make it. Yeah I get it. Does anyone actually enjoy being a professional pilot out there? I have never heard anyone have anything good to say about it, and frankly I'm getting sick of all whiners. Yes, everything has its ups and down, but does every person I ask about an aviation career have to be a pessimist? There are so many harder and less rewarding jobs in the world, even in the good ole USA.

So please, I'd like some feedback, from a person who actually enjoys their job as a pilot, about their career and any suggestions for getting my foot in the door.

Thanks guys :beer:

PS don't tell me to pick a different career because this is what I've dreamed of doing and I'd rather fail at it, then try something else. I get this told a lot too.:banghead:
 
First off, welcome to JC. Spend some time reading around the forums, and I think you will get a pretty good feel of how most people feel about their profession.

The only difference between a pilot and a jet engine is that after landing the jet engine quits whining. Pilots will always gripe about what they have to do. Most however would much prefer doing what they do than doing something else.

Yeah, if you want to go the 121 airline route, you will have to work your way up through the regionals and work for next to nothing wages, with hours you don't like and a lot of time sitting around. If you want to go a different route, corporate or charter for instance, you will have to work your way up there as well doing not so great jobs for not so great pay. It's just the way it all works.
 
I have positive things to say about flying, but I somehow suspect they won't be adequate to meet your DEMAND that I be positive in a really uncomplaining and awesome way. I prognosticate that nothing could conceivably live up to your "dream". I further prognosticate that you will not have a very good experience in any career (or social situation, for that matter) barging in without even bothering to introduce yourself and telling everyone what they're allowed to say to you. Maybe you should walk back out, turn around, knock politely, and try again.
 
Short answer yes


The job is great, rules and policies are usually fairly straightforward, the challenges that present themselves offer a real sense of satisfaction when you overcome them. You can't beat the view


What sucks are the people running the show. The farce that is "safety first". The questionable ethics in business practices, "leaders" who can't lead rats to cheese, etc and so on.
 
So I'm getting my ratings at university flight school and all I ever hear about professional aviation is how bad it is. Its always the same old song and dance. Horrible hours, poor pay, stressful job, and paying your dues in the regionals, 5/200 people make it. Yeah I get it. Does anyone actually enjoy being a professional pilot out there? I have never heard anyone have anything good to say about it, and frankly I'm getting sick of all whiners. Yes, everything has its ups and down, but does every person I ask about an aviation career have to be a pessimist? There are so many harder and less rewarding jobs in the world, even in the good ole USA.

So please, I'd like some feedback, from a person who actually enjoys their job as a pilot, about their career and any suggestions for getting my foot in the door.

Thanks guys :beer:

PS don't tell me to pick a different career because this is what I've dreamed of doing and I'd rather fail at it, then try something else. I get this told a lot too.:banghead:

I enjoy my job, overall. The pay is bad and the hours are tough (I woke up today at 5pm to get ready for another eastbound redeye tomorrow night). My current trip will cover 10 timezones, all on the backside of the clock. That part is not easy, nor is it enjoyable. I do enjoy the aircraft I fly and the crews I fly with, as well as some of our unique destinations. Flying airplanes has been what I've wanted to do from a very young age, but doing it for a living isn't what most people expect it to be.

Would I do it again? Yes, but I don't want to do this until I'm 65. I would love to be able to work for myself eventually, and fly because I want to, not because I have to.

Sorry if you were looking for the optimist view; I'm offering you a realistic view. It's up to you what you do with the information I've provided you. Best of luck with your future.

And to respond to Jet's post below mine: YES, I have worked outside of aviation.
 
What you will usually find out is that all of the negative complains come from people who have never worked outside of aviation. The airline job isn't perfect but the grass isn't greener outside of aviation like some people think it is. If you get a job at a regional, upgrade, get some seniority and live in base....where else can you make 90k with half the month off outside of aviation?
 
So I'm getting my ratings at university flight school and all I ever hear about professional aviation is how bad it is. Its always the same old song and dance. Horrible hours, poor pay, stressful job, and paying your dues in the regionals, 5/200 people make it. Yeah I get it. Does anyone actually enjoy being a professional pilot out there? I have never heard anyone have anything good to say about it, and frankly I'm getting sick of all whiners. Yes, everything has its ups and down, but does every person I ask about an aviation career have to be a pessimist? There are so many harder and less rewarding jobs in the world, even in the good ole USA.

So please, I'd like some feedback, from a person who actually enjoys their job as a pilot, about their career and any suggestions for getting my foot in the door.

Thanks guys :beer:

PS don't tell me to pick a different career because this is what I've dreamed of doing and I'd rather fail at it, then try something else. I get this told a lot too.:banghead:

I love the job and wouldn't want it any other way right now. Granted I've only been in the 121 world for two months, but even with being on reserve, I've been flying a lot and I get weekends off. That's all I really ask for. I'm pretty content with it all and you really learn to make the best of it. Avoid crew rooms, and smile often and you'll be surprised how much better the 121 world will be. Besides, who wants to be around negativity? Just surround yourself with positive people and it's very enjoyable.
 
I have positive things to say about flying, but I somehow suspect they won't be adequate to meet your DEMAND that I be positive in a really uncomplaining and awesome way. I prognosticate that nothing could conceivably live up to your "dream". I further prognosticate that you will not have a very good experience in any career (or social situation, for that matter) barging in without even bothering to introduce yourself and telling everyone what they're allowed to say to you. Maybe you should walk back out, turn around, knock politely, and try again.

My apologies for barging in rudely. I didn't realize that I was supposed to introduce myself on the internet...

ehem,
I'm 20 years old with a 2 year degree, I have my PPL, started IFR training, and I'm going to a university flight school. And I like to converse with people with a more upbeat view of aviation, which was the jist of my original post with a bit of venting mixed in.
 
I'm not in aviation for the money, but the challenge and fulfillment you get from being a pilot. I've never had a lot of money nor am I worried about making a lot. Its something I can be proud of doing.
 
Hmm. It's a pretty cool job, sometimes. Sometimes it's not so cool. But it's still a job, either way. By and large I do my challenge and fulfillment shopping elsewhere.
 
Hmm. It's a pretty cool job, sometimes. Sometimes it's not so cool. But it's still a job, either way. By and large I do my challenge and fulfillment shopping elsewhere.

Seems like with all the bad things about aviation I hear, and the massive student loan debt, they're the only reasons to be a professional pilot.
 
There are good and bad things about being a pilot. The differences you will find in people's attitudes about the job are based on the individual's attitude more than the actual facts of the job itself.

There are people who will complain when given a hot, fresh meal... and there will be people who will be grateful and thankful for that same meal. The difference isn't what the meal is, it's how the meal has been perceived.

Just a nickel's worth of free advice...
 
My apologies for barging in rudely. I didn't realize that I was supposed to introduce myself on the internet...

ehem,
I'm 20 years old with a 2 year degree, I have my PPL, started IFR training, and I'm going to a university flight school. And I like to converse with people with a more upbeat view of aviation, which was the jist of my original post with a bit of venting mixed in.

Check out this thread. Upbeat Airline Pilots on JC
 
There are good and bad things about being a pilot. The differences you will find in people's attitudes about the job are based on the individual's attitude more than the actual facts of the job itself.

There are people who will complain when given a hot, fresh meal... and there will be people who will be grateful and thankful for that same meal. The difference isn't what the meal is, it's how the meal has been perceived.

Just a nickel's worth of free advice...

I agree, its just that I've been looking for a different view point, other than a negative one, on what I have to look forward to.
 
When the job is good, its great. When it is bad, it absolutely sucks.

For perspective, I work at the eastern side of Surejet. I've been here for 4 years and even if things turn awesome in an instant I'm still looking at 2+ years for an upgrade.

The good: The flying can be a lot of fun. You get to do a lot of things that you'll never get to do in GA. While not that exciting in the sim, your first cat II approach to mins will be an eye opener. You'll fly in some challenging situations that can really make you feel good after you work through them. You'll work with some great people. When nonreving works, its pretty spectacular. In theory, you'll have the ability to walk to any airport in the US and get on almost any airplane to anywhere. The first time you're strapped into a first/biz class seat to somewhere overseas, you'll be expecting someone to come bursting through the door at the last minute to accuse you of stealing. But instead, you're sipping on a glass of champagne as the door closes and the jetway pulls away. Almost everyone will find your job interesting and ask lots of questions. When you're finally able to gain the seniority, you can regularly work only half the days in the month. You'll get to interact with passengers and feel proud of yourself for getting them safely to be with their family, go to college, go to a job interview, etc. As you exit security, you'll see people from your flight run straight into the arms of loved ones and think "wow, I had something to do with that." Among other things.

The bad: The job can be greuling. You will be pressured to do a lot of things that you really shouldn't. You'll hear the ATIS say the winds are gusting to 50kts and know that the entire east coast is doing the same thing. You'll scare the pants off yourself. You'll fly some absolutely broken down pieces of crap and have to explain to the passengers why the gear won't be retracted for the flight, and its going to take a lot longer to get where you're going than it should. You'll work with some absolute s. You'll be subjected to their political, religious, whatever rants simply because they are in charge. You'll fly with a guy who refuses to kick the rudder out in a crosswind because "momentum will sort it out". You'll be stranded at different airports around the country when you are trying to get at home. You WILL miss important family gatherings (you might be single now and think that isn't a high priority...but odds are, at some point they will be). You'll be asked some absolutely stupid questions by people with zero manners "hey....where's gate 3C?" "Umm...that's your seat number." When you are junior, your company will own your ass. You will finish a trip on your birthday and be on your way out to see your wife in the parking lot because she has a weekend away planned, only to find out you were extended and are now out $300 that she spent to rent a cabin. This job is grueling, just as you finally feel recovered from your last trip its time to go back to work. After diverting to CAK instead of PIT you'll be told "now I'm going to miss my job interview and I'll stay unemployed, this is your fault!" even though the weather was the reason for the divert. At times you'll feel stuck at a company that has no future, but despite 4 years in the grind you're not "experienced" enough to move on somewhere.

If you're expecting someone to come on here and say "everyone who dislikes their job is full of crap, its great!" you are mistaken. Just like everything else, there's good things and there's bad. I promise you that when you "make it" it won't be anything at all like you pictured it. I thought I had a pretty realistic expectation for this industry, thanks to this site. Yet, I was still underwhelmed when I got here. Its not THAT bad all the time. Its more that maybe its not quite worth all that I put in to get here. But this is my trade, this is what I'm good at.
 
I'm not in aviation for the money, but the challenge and fulfillment you get from being a pilot. I've never had a lot of money nor am I worried about making a lot. Its something I can be proud of doing.

I'm starting to lose on the part on in bold. Pilots are disposable/replaceable, and management knows this. That's part of the reason the wages keep going downward. The more sophisticated the aircraft get, the less they need pilots to fly them. I know you're young, and you don't want to hear this, but you really need to considering the amount of money you're spending to do it. Pilots these days really don't have any special skills (especially in the 121 world). If you drop dead, you're replaced immediately. You're a guy who turns on a computer that flies people from point A to point B. As Boris said, fulfillment-wise, you should look elsewhere.
 
Worked outside aviation in restaurants and hotel service (food and bev side).
Worked in aviation as a technician for aircraft cert, ramp, ops manager, W+B officer, and aircraft dispatcher. Been an FO twice, captain once, CFI'ed and did some limited 135 stuff (and some part 91 MX repo's). While varied I'm fairly new to the industry from the pilot side of things.

I enjoy the job but the industry is a joke. Too many guys will fly for little to nothing if the airplane is shiny enough, and unions are a bad word, for those reasons and many more pay is a bit of a joke. This month I'll make over five grand ($5,300 with per diem) thanks to my contract which is apparently good money for an FO flying something the size of a smaller model DC9 but we all pretend it is just an RJ. I won't have a ton of days off this month though, kinda sucks, normally I'll get 15 or so with all the open time I pick up, but I'm saving for a wedding. Plus last month I had 21 days off for a bunch of side business stuff (but didn't make more than min pay), so I'm playing catch up a little. Doesn't help the NOV trips are crap (18-25hr 4 days, bleh!).

Maybe Zap could chime in explaining what he made (or would have made) as a 5th year DC9 FO adjusting for inflation, I think you'll see what I'm talking about. If you read Sully's book he complains about only making 27,000 first year (adjusting for inflation of course) sitting side ways on a 727 (not even touching a yoke). It's 2011 and this December (COLA adjustment) our FO's will start off at- essentially- $27,000. That's about the highest starting pay in the regional industry (ASA and Horizon might still be a little better than us) and the way new FO's push for open time and don't care about QOL he/she will probably make over 30 without trying hard.

The bright light at the end of the tunnel is the massive pilot shortage (a myth) that will result in all our hiring to a Major 3-5 years ago. It was all delayed due to evil age 65 apparently, and we'll all be flying 777's two years from now. Two years from now we'll blame it on Greece I'm betting. Hiring up to the Major's will happen slowly at which point we'll give up good salaries as captains at the regionals to become a FO all over again, it'll only take 3-6 years (company dependent) to make back the money you are losing, that's if you don't get furloughed.

So there you go, I do love the job. The industry could use an enema. I'm not bitter though, I'm very positive about my side business and hope I can leave this all behind, or be a real senior FO at my regional who never works.
 
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