Realignment Round 2 at 9E
- Thread starter DL31082
- Start date
SpiceWeasel
Tre Kronor
What you guys really need to realize is that for every guy on this list that was awarded a windfall there is another poor slob that got awarded a equally huge pile of crap in the opposite direction. This SLI had huge gains for some but equally huge losses for others. Personally I made it almost halfway up the seniority list at 9L only to have 2000 (yes two thousand) guys put in front of me. Many were Pinnacle Jet FOs that had maybe 6-10 months more seniority than me. They really paid their dues over me, please. Don't worry, I'll never see one of your crappy jets and I'll be on reserve for the rest of my days here. I did not want this merger and would trade it and the new contract for my old gig at crappy 9L back. It would have been nice to see a more balanced SLI with no windfalls positive OR negative. I thought that was the plan. So yes this sucks for me, I take it in the can so my Colgan brothers can score big.
And before you ask, NO I'm not the idiot in the van. Different idiot.....
Mesaba proposed DOH. People hired before you on the Gregorian calendar? Tough tea man. Ask the XJ guys who are sitting next to, and/or junior to DOHs up to 8 years later how they feel.
Everyone but 9L guys can complain - you guys practically got guaranteed street CA.
FYI - my regional career expectation is 280 spots senior to me right now. A locked out pay raise is approximately 400 junior to me. I don't feel like complaining, as most of my same seniority friends all sound like cutters right now. But, I will say, look at the factual results of the SLI and fences.
If XJ and 9E MC had agreed on DOH, I wonder how the award would have changed.
jynxyjoe
Queso King
Would have been fair for some, and not for others. This award is fair for some and not for others. The DOH scheme sounded reasonable to me, however in 20 something years no one has done it? Seems like the SLI people and Bloche had very congruent reasoning for dismissing DOH (as well as decades of other merger committees).
To be a fly on the wall.
Tram
Well-Known Member
What you guys really need to realize is that for every guy on this list that was awarded a windfall there is another poor slob that got awarded a equally huge pile of crap in the opposite direction. This SLI had huge gains for some but equally huge losses for others. Personally I made it almost halfway up the seniority list at 9L only to have 2000 (yes two thousand) guys put in front of me. Many were Pinnacle Jet FOs that had maybe 6-10 months more seniority than me. They really paid their dues over me, please. Don't worry, I'll never see one of your crappy jets and I'll be on reserve for the rest of my days here. I did not want this merger and would trade it and the new contract for my old gig at crappy 9L back. It would have been nice to see a more balanced SLI with no windfalls positive OR negative. I thought that was the plan. So yes this sucks for me, I take it in the can so my Colgan brothers can score big.
And before you ask, NO I'm not the idiot in the van. Different idiot.....
It doesn't matter where you made it up your companies list. I worked at a company where I was the #1 FO company wide in less than a full year. Should we have been absorbed by another company should I have eased my way over there via relative seniority? Sure, it would have been nice, but I wouldn't expect it.
The only fair way to do it was DOH.
It didn't happen that way. Oh well. Life goes on.
Tram
Well-Known Member
This is going downhill quick. It's all Tram's fault
Someone has to have enough testicular fortitude to say what the masses are thinking but generally unwilling to say. I speak my mind. I'm cool with it.
Sent you a PM.
Tram
Well-Known Member
Well then I guess we need to issue cards. Those who have the right and those who don't.
Those without a right to complain card should be kicked in the shins directly.
CFIT99
I'm probably commenting ironically...
I'm thorougly angry...I've at the company for the better part of 2 months, have 3 people below me on the seniority list, haven't been to the sim yet...and am outraged I didn't get ATL CRJ captain...I should have passed 1000's of other pilots...I'm gonna go write a heated email...
jynxyjoe
Queso King
Someone has to have enough testicular fortitude to say what the masses are thinking but generally unwilling to say. I speak my mind. I'm cool with it.
Sent you a PM.
WUV you!
ajdwings
Well-Known Member
That's a great idea!!
Let's form a bitch and complain committe. We'll issue cards to each pilot on the list with a number 1-10 on it. The bitch level scale. Number 1 being to most right to bitch and number 10 being the least right. That way if you're in the van and some idiot starts sounding off you can ask to see his card. If his number is higher than yours you can tell him to shut the #### up!
Here's the parameters. You guys can fight over the in between numbers.
1. Pinnacle JET FO.
10. Colgan 2010 hire upgrade.
Tram
Well-Known Member
Oooh this could work my dear boy, this could WORK!
Are there really 2010 Colgan hires upgrading? If there are, I need to go punch myself or someone else, in the junk. Just need to figure that out.
flyinggreasemnky
Well-Known Member
Yes, there are several of them.
ajdwings
Well-Known Member
On the award the most jr 9L CA is down to May 2010
Sorry! Actually don't be surprised to see the list bottom out to all pre-merger FOs. There's quite a few guys that were awarded CA that for one reason or another aren't eligible to upgrade.Don't be mad at them. They just got what they could hold. Bloch is the guy to be pissed at. Also if he truly did it to punish 9E for the ridiculous "staple" proposal than I'd be pissed at the 9E merger committee as well.
The guys at the bottom of the Colgan captain list (myself included)that got integrated in the last category are the ones that really took the worst of it at 9L. The 2010 guys that got the upgrade know it's a gift. I've spoken to a bunch of them and trust me they are not gloating about it. They did what anyone would have done.
Just to give you an idea of my own situation. I took the first available upgrade in JAN11 that my seniority would hold. 31 Months. Everyone at the time told me it was a gift. Nothing compared to the 16 month upgrade now. There was about 4 guys in my upgrade class of 8 that were able to upgrade at the same time. All four of those guys are now over 1000 numbers ahead of me on the list! So we all had about the same seniority to upgrade at the same time, but because of the entire category and class Bloch method the other guys lucked out and I went the other way.
jynxyjoe
Queso King
I actually am in favor of the cards.
Somehow I feel my card is gonna be in the #7 range but no problem, I'm a good listener.
I feel the numbers go something like this.
1. 01-04 hire at mesaba now junior to a 07 hire at Colgan
2. whichever Pinnacle was at the bottom of that 2.7:1 pile (Group 1) on the Pinnacle side
3. 1/3 most senior Pinnacle FO's
4. 1/3 most senior Mesaba FO's
...furloughs
... ?
7. Rest of Mesaba FO's
8. Top 1/3 of Mesaba list who got the 2.7:1
9. Colgan FO's who went from ~55% up the list to ~77% up the list
10. Any Colgan Captain. (it is possible for group 9 to become group 10)
In other words, I can't really complain too much, but I shouldn't have to listen to any Colgan guy gripe.
However I feel like a Colgan guy is going to reverse a bunch of my numbers around.
Let's get Bloch to arbitrate the numbers!
Somehow I feel my card is gonna be in the #7 range but no problem, I'm a good listener.
I feel the numbers go something like this.
1. 01-04 hire at mesaba now junior to a 07 hire at Colgan
2. whichever Pinnacle was at the bottom of that 2.7:1 pile (Group 1) on the Pinnacle side
3. 1/3 most senior Pinnacle FO's
4. 1/3 most senior Mesaba FO's
...furloughs
... ?
7. Rest of Mesaba FO's
8. Top 1/3 of Mesaba list who got the 2.7:1
9. Colgan FO's who went from ~55% up the list to ~77% up the list
10. Any Colgan Captain. (it is possible for group 9 to become group 10)
In other words, I can't really complain too much, but I shouldn't have to listen to any Colgan guy gripe.
However I feel like a Colgan guy is going to reverse a bunch of my numbers around.
Let's get Bloch to arbitrate the numbers!
jynxyjoe
Queso King
Lol, those Mesaba captains lost about 5 years DOH wise man, never mind they got nearly no contract improvement- when they (not if) they get pushed out of their -900 captain seat they'll be lucky to hold a line on a -200 somewhere (hopefully that's an exaggeration). Now I know there's a certain Colgan MX guy turned Saab (now Q?) captain who lost a lot of years, but thankfully his first 6 was turning wrenches, and the last 6 he was a management pilot, so I'm not concerned.
As for your second part I think you are using the opposite numbers as me. 100% being bottom, 1% being top is how I look at it. There were some pilots on the Colgan list who were slotted as FO's (may have been captains at the time) who went from 50% of the list down to 75% of the list. They are now placeholders at a base so - if one chooses - a lot of us will never have to sit reserve if we upgrade into that base. That's a little rough for them.
ajdwings
Well-Known Member
Sorry man but I'm confused about the last part. Can you dumb it down even further for me. Are you talking about guys like me.
? I was a CA on the 9L list almost up to the 50% point now I'm down past the 75% point. I'll always be constantly pushed down and on reserve as guys keep upgrading. I must be totally lost on this one sorry.
? I was a CA on the 9L list almost up to the 50% point now I'm down past the 75% point. I'll always be constantly pushed down and on reserve as guys keep upgrading. I must be totally lost on this one sorry.
jynxyjoe
Queso King
Yes, absolutely you said it best. I think you guys got roughed up pretty bad SLI wise, and like you said, you are permanent reserve. I think you are saying that your group should be higher up the list, but our groups would respond by saying, "So how big was your pay raise? How much TPIC are you logging a month? What is your date of hire again? What was your contract like before this JCBA?" and so on and so on. Devils advocate and such.
I'm not opposed to moving those numbers around, I was just throwing up what I thought they should be. Let's get Bloch to arbitrate! You think you should be split off, maybe we can throw you in at a 6.?
ajdwings
Well-Known Member
6,7,8 is right about where I thought I should be. I get to keep my CA seat but just barely. Any FO has it worse than me! I really think 1-5 should be all FOs and the CAs should take up 6-10.
Screw Bloch we can do it better ourselves. Same way we should have done the SLI. A dry erase board, a couple hundred pitchers of beer, and a couple thousand lucky strikes. Like one big giant fantasy draft.
I'll have the "Bitch and Complain" cards made up.
Screw Bloch we can do it better ourselves. Same way we should have done the SLI. A dry erase board, a couple hundred pitchers of beer, and a couple thousand lucky strikes. Like one big giant fantasy draft.
I'll have the "Bitch and Complain" cards made up.
jynxyjoe
Queso King
As long as that giant Wookie of yours is last round draft, and he isn't allowed to drink all the beer or chase women until we've had our fill.
Tram, you'd better be a happy drunk or I'm gonna drop you off on Crump next to a liquor store wrapped in a Dixie flag.