Realignment Round 2 at 9E

flyinggreasemnky said:
Has anyone noticed that the vacancy only called for Colgan to be over the Q quota by 12 spots (205-193=12) yet there are 20 spots awarded to XJ and 9E guys (not including the Phantom)?
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In all fairness......it's not THAT big a deal. So, some Colgan 2010 guys don't get the Q400. Talk to some of the XJ and 9E guys locked out of upgrade that have been at their respective airlines for 4-5 years. Meanwhile, guys at Colgan that are WAY junior to them are upgrading on the Saab. Then you've got Q400 guys jumping over to the -200 pushing 9E guys down the list. You've got some senior 9E guys in MEM doing the same to XJ'ers in MEM. Honestly, I don't think Colgan guys have jack to complain about right now.....
 
kellwolf said:
In all fairness......it's not THAT big a deal. So, some Colgan 2010 guys don't get the Q400. Talk to some of the XJ and 9E guys locked out of upgrade that have been at their respective airlines for 4-5 years. Meanwhile, guys at Colgan that are WAY junior to them are upgrading on the Saab. Then you've got Q400 guys jumping over to the -200 pushing 9E guys down the list. You've got some senior 9E guys in MEM doing the same to XJ'ers in MEM. Honestly, I don't think Colgan guys have jack to complain about right now.....
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I'll definitely agree with you 100%. But if what he says is true, I'm thinking maybe there weren't enough Colgan guys that had the q upgrade time?
 
L-16B said:
I'll definitely agree with you 100%. But if what he says is true, I'm thinking maybe there weren't enough Colgan guys that had the q upgrade time?
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upgrade time is the same across all equipment company wide. 2500 TT and 1000 company time.
 
I agree that a lot of guys dont have the time now but if you forcast out till may for class dates you will have a lot of guys with the time. Plus I was just pointing out something that a ton of guys don't know. I hear a lot of people think the q has the old upgrade times and didn't realize the contract has upgrade times in it.
 
flyinggreasemnky said:
Has anyone noticed that the vacancy only called for Colgan to be over the Q quota by 12 spots (205-193=12) yet there are 20 spots awarded to XJ and 9E guys (not including the Phantom)?
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This is because the "205" number does not include phantom, FTI, and mgmt pilots (as stated on the vacancy award) whereas the Q quota of 193 includes all pilots (including phantom, FTI, and mgmt pilots.) When you add the non-included phantom, FTI, and mgmt back into the "205" the total staffing as applied to the fence is around 220 total Q CA positions. This is why there were around 20 spots awarded to XJ pilots.
 
JrsyGuy said:
I agree that a lot of guys dont have the time now but if you forcast out till may for class dates you will have a lot of guys with the time. Plus I was just pointing out something that a ton of guys don't know. I hear a lot of people think the q has the old upgrade times and didn't realize the contract has upgrade times in it.
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Problem is, you can't forcecast time for bidding for upgrade. What if you bid for it, and (god forbid) went out on medical leave for something? You wouldn't have the time when it came time to go to class. Which is why it says "please make sure your hours are accurate AS OF SUBMISSION." You never know what's going to happen. On the old 9E system bid forms, it specifically said "Do NOT forecast hours" when you put in your times for upgrade purposes.
 
They say not to forecast out yourself since the system(in this case FS and his crew) will forecast out for you. Upgrade or not, 75 a month will be added to your time to make you eligible to bid. If you don't have the time by the time class starts then you simply aren't able to attend class and they would then put in one of the reserve(i forget the actual term in the contract) pilots awarded that position for this reason(and others)
 
JrsyGuy said:
They say not to forecast out yourself since the system(in this case FS and his crew) will forecast out for you. Upgrade or not, 75 a month will be added to your time to make you eligible to bid. If you don't have the time by the time class starts then you simply aren't able to attend class and they would then put in one of the reserve(i forget the actual term in the contract) pilots awarded that position for this reason(and others)
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75 a month isn't accurate seeing as how I'm scheduled to block less than that in November. It's all those deadheads and the sim that boost me up above 80.
 
kellwolf said:
Talk to some of the XJ and 9E guys locked out of upgrade that have been at their respective airlines for 4-5 years. Meanwhile, guys at Colgan that are WAY junior to them are upgrading on the Saab. Then you've got Q400 guys jumping over to the -200 pushing 9E guys down the list. You've got some senior 9E guys in MEM doing the same to XJ'ers in MEM. Honestly, I don't think Colgan guys have jack to complain about right now.....
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Yeh, really..

"We got hosed, Tommy."

If I heard any XJ or Colgan folks moaning, I'd be seriously tempted to show them why I fly in booots.. ;)
 
Tram said:
Yeh, really..

"We got hosed, Tommy."

If I heard any XJ or Colgan folks moaning, I'd be seriously tempted to show them why I fly in booots.. ;)
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Actually had a cellphone video of some Colgan guys complaining in the crew bus up in MSP from a couple days back, they bitched so long and it was so funny and the guy in the van couldn't txt it all fast enough so he started recording. I don't know how much it's been making it's rounds but it is embarrassing to say the least.

Keep in mind the fact that 80% of any pilot group give the other 20% a bad name.
kellwolf said:
Honestly, I don't think Colgan guys have jack to complain about right now.....
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Honestly, I don't think anyone would care if they did complain. :)
 
What were the complaining about?

jynxyjoe said:
Actually had a cellphone video of some Colgan guys complaining in the crew bus up in MSP from a couple days back, they bitched so long and it was so funny and the guy in the van couldn't txt it all fast enough so he started recording. I don't know how much it's been making it's rounds but it is embarrassing to say the least.

Keep in mind the fact that 80% of any pilot group give the other 20% a bad name.


Honestly, I don't think anyone would care if they did complain. :)
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jynxyjoe said:
Actually had a cellphone video of some Colgan guys complaining in the crew bus up in MSP from a couple days back, they bitched so long and it was so funny and the guy in the van couldn't txt it all fast enough so he started recording. I don't know how much it's been making it's rounds but it is embarrassing to say the least.
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Post it on here. If they were in MSP, that means they were moving to a jet spot. What could they possibly have to complain about?
 
I'm not going to post anything online, for obvious reason, but there were a couple of guys in the van and I can't promise they were all complaining. The txt's were highlights of dumb things said as well as a video which was held to the floor in which I could hear more laughing than actual griping.
  • Bloch award doesn't make sense in general
  • Bloch award sticks this griping crewmember in the Saab instead of going to the Q
  • Guess Mesaba and Pinnacle should have let them have the pay raises immediately then Bloch wouldn't have screwed us. (I assume he's talking about the snap backs but who knows)
  • No one should have to wait at all to upgrade at Colgan since they were all entitled to it anyway. (let's keep in mind this is paraphrasing)
  • Colgan was fine before Pinnacle and Mesaba, although if I'm reading this txt right he was actually hired AFTER Pinnacle bought them... probably not terribly educated on his own company.
  • Q's are better than -200s, Q's are the future.
Then the video saying the merger should have never happened, I imagine that's because this guy would get on the Q faster. He's apparently too good for the Saab. For all I know this could be a junior FO and the captain sitting next to him wanted to shoot himself.
 
WIPilot said:
But it is contractual.
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Block and credit are different. Your TIMES are based on what you fly. Why should they projected 75 hours a month when you're not guaranteed to FLY 75 hours, only guaranteed to get PAID 75 hours? It's a rarity, but it has happened: what if an FO looking to upgrade is on reserve?

Like I said, I'm scheduled to FLY 73 and change. My CREDIT is over 80 due to deadheads, sims and the 4 hour min day. So, I'm not blocking 75, but I'm getting well over the contractual min guarantee pay.
 
PropDriver said:
Post it on here. If they were in MSP, that means they were moving to a jet spot. What could they possibly have to complain about?
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Not true we have a Q class in MSP a we speak. They have no right to complain regaregardless unless they plan on being a lifer and pissed about relative maybe?
 
How precious

jynxyjoe said:
I'm not going to post anything online, for obvious reason, but there were a couple of guys in the van and I can't promise they were all complaining. The txt's were highlights of dumb things said as well as a video which was held to the floor in which I could hear more laughing than actual griping.
  • Bloch award doesn't make sense in general
  • Bloch award sticks this griping crewmember in the Saab instead of going to the Q
  • Guess Mesaba and Pinnacle should have let them have the pay raises immediately then Bloch wouldn't have screwed us. (I assume he's talking about the snap backs but who knows)
  • No one should have to wait at all to upgrade at Colgan since they were all entitled to it anyway. (let's keep in mind this is paraphrasing)
  • Colgan was fine before Pinnacle and Mesaba, although if I'm reading this txt right he was actually hired AFTER Pinnacle bought them... probably not terribly educated on his own company.
  • Q's are better than -200s, Q's are the future.
Then the video saying the merger should have never happened, I imagine that's because this guy would get on the Q faster. He's apparently too good for the Saab. For all I know this could be a junior FO and the captain sitting next to him wanted to shoot himself.
Click to expand...
 
Tram said:
Yeh, really..

"We got hosed, Tommy."

If I heard any XJ or Colgan folks moaning, I'd be seriously tempted to show them why I fly in booots.. ;)
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What you guys really need to realize is that for every guy on this list that was awarded a windfall there is another poor slob that got awarded a equally huge pile of crap in the opposite direction. This SLI had huge gains for some but equally huge losses for others. Personally I made it almost halfway up the seniority list at 9L only to have 2000 (yes two thousand) guys put in front of me. Many were Pinnacle Jet FOs that had maybe 6-10 months more seniority than me. They really paid their dues over me, please. Don't worry, I'll never see one of your crappy jets and I'll be on reserve for the rest of my days here. I did not want this merger and would trade it and the new contract for my old gig at crappy 9L back. It would have been nice to see a more balanced SLI with no windfalls positive OR negative. I thought that was the plan. So yes this sucks for me, I take it in the can so my Colgan brothers can score big.

And before you ask, NO I'm not the idiot in the van. Different idiot.....:)
 
kellwolf said:
Block and credit are different. Your TIMES are based on what you fly. Why should they projected 75 hours a month when you're not guaranteed to FLY 75 hours, only guaranteed to get PAID 75 hours? It's a rarity, but it has happened: what if an FO looking to upgrade is on reserve?

Like I said, I'm scheduled to FLY 73 and change. My CREDIT is over 80 due to deadheads, sims and the 4 hour min day. So, I'm not blocking 75, but I'm getting well over the contractual min guarantee pay.
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Hey Kell, I agree with what you're saying about forecasting hours, there's really no way to accurately predict how much time you'll have between. However, take a look at Section 24.A.21.b. That's different from what we used to have at 9E. I can forsee FO's with 2425 hours bidding for an upgrade spot, they end up getting it, and then being turned away 1st day of class because they only have 2485 hours.
 
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