Tips on landing?

J

jmartinezm

Well-Known Member
Hey guys, I've recently started doing some landings on my lessons (second lesson involving landings yesterday) and I find myself not really using the pedals as much as I would think one should, but when my instructor puts in some 'encouragement' I notice he's pushing on the pedals one way or the other, which leads me to believe that I SHOULD be using rudder but I just don't know when to use it or which way I want the plane to yaw in what situations.. Yesterday for example we had a crosswind 110 @ 16 (from the AWOS) landing on 14. I noticed he was switching back and forth between left rudder and right rudder, but I always forget to ask with me being stubborn and trying to figure it out for myself with experience..

Can anyone give me some tips to land? Like in which situations should I be using rudder, lowering the wing into the wind, sideslipping for the landing, etc.. I'm training in a 172P also. Thanks for all the help!
 
The amount of rudder needed changes with the speed of the airplane, which is decreasing (so rudder force is increasing). Wind speed isn't exactly constant either.

An 8kt crosswind component is a lot to learn in, try to stick with the calm days if possible for now.
 
Look all the way down the runway to get a sense of which way your aircraft is traveling in relation to which way your nose is pointed. Use aileron (the stick) to fight for the centerline, use rudder to point your nose straight down the runway. Ifyou overthink it while you're doing it, it will mess you up because landing in anything other than a constant wind is a constantly changing event. So, to recap, use your hands and the stick to keep you on centerline and use the rudder to line the your nose and wheels up with the runway. If you happen to have a wing down when you land in a crosswind, good!
 
IMO, the second lesson doesn't really need more than two (or-so) practice landings.

The longer I instructed, the longer new students spent in the practice area just starting out, learning their "new environment".

Go out to the practice area, slow down and hammer the rudder left and right- Aileron left and right - together - and against each other.
The landing thing will come but I believe this can help you immediately on your third lesson.
Gotta find out what those suckers can do.
 
Goldmember said:
Look all the way down the runway to get a sense of which way your aircraft is traveling in relation to which way your nose is pointed. Use aileron (the stick) to fight for the centerline, use rudder to point your nose straight down the runway. Ifyou overthink it while you're doing it, it will mess you up because landing in anything other than a constant wind is a constantly changing event. So, to recap, use your hands and the stick to keep you on centerline and use the rudder to line the your nose and wheels up with the runway. If you happen to have a wing down when you land in a crosswind, good!
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I think this is good gouge. I flew as a primary IP in the T-34C with the Navy and it's the same concept as a 172. Experienced pilots may end up with their own techniques but the basics above are the same.
 
jmartinezm said:
Hey guys, I've recently started doing some landings on my lessons (second lesson involving landings yesterday) and I find myself not really using the pedals as much as I would think one should, but when my instructor puts in some 'encouragement' I notice he's pushing on the pedals one way or the other, which leads me to believe that I SHOULD be using rudder but I just don't know when to use it or which way I want the plane to yaw in what situations.. Yesterday for example we had a crosswind 110 @ 16 (from the AWOS) landing on 14. I noticed he was switching back and forth between left rudder and right rudder, but I always forget to ask with me being stubborn and trying to figure it out for myself with experience..

Can anyone give me some tips to land? Like in which situations should I be using rudder, lowering the wing into the wind, sideslipping for the landing, etc.. I'm training in a 172P also. Thanks for all the help!
Click to expand...

The method you're asking about is called the "wing low" or "forward slip to landing" method, for landing in higher crosswind conditions, and it cant be a challenging skill to master. The way I teach it is that you want to be crabbed until about 200' AGL, at which point you want to align the nose so that the longitudinal axis points down the extended centerline of the runway by using the rudder pedals. From that point point on, use the rudder pedals solely to keep the nose pointed down the center line and use the ailerons to control your drift. And remember, on windier days, this skill takes a lot of coordination, and your airspeed on short final should be 5 - 10 kias higher than normal to help with the slightly higher risk of stall. I do agree with the others though, if this is your second landing lesson, you shouldn't be worried about such things just yet.

Edit: I just realized that I totally just said what Goldmember said. Sorry, I'm an idiot. Cheers.
 
Goldmember said:
Look all the way down the runway to get a sense of which way your aircraft is traveling in relation to which way your nose is pointed. Use aileron (the stick) to fight for the centerline, use rudder to point your nose straight down the runway. Ifyou overthink it while you're doing it, it will mess you up because landing in anything other than a constant wind is a constantly changing event. So, to recap, use your hands and the stick to keep you on centerline and use the rudder to line the your nose and wheels up with the runway. If you happen to have a wing down when you land in a crosswind, good!
Click to expand...

Says it all
 
Just a pointer I learned on my commercial checkride: Wheels on the ground = Even more aileron correction.
 
jmartinezm said:
Hey guys, I've recently started doing some landings on my lessons (second lesson involving landings yesterday) and I find myself not really using the pedals as much as I would think one should, but when my instructor puts in some 'encouragement' I notice he's pushing on the pedals one way or the other, which leads me to believe that I SHOULD be using rudder but I just don't know when to use it or which way I want the plane to yaw in what situations.. Yesterday for example we had a crosswind 110 @ 16 (from the AWOS) landing on 14. I noticed he was switching back and forth between left rudder and right rudder, but I always forget to ask with me being stubborn and trying to figure it out for myself with experience..

Can anyone give me some tips to land? Like in which situations should I be using rudder, lowering the wing into the wind, sideslipping for the landing, etc.. I'm training in a 172P also. Thanks for all the help!
Click to expand...
If it's only your second lesson I wouldn't be flying in 16 kt winds (even if they aren't a straight crosswind). Try to master landing on a calm day before you move on. Try to schedule your lessons at 7AM (winds are normally calmer then). Once you are good at calm wind landings, then go from there.
 
amjon said:
If it's only your second lesson I wouldn't be flying in 16 kt winds (even if they aren't a straight crosswind). Try to master landing on a calm day before you move on. Try to schedule your lessons at 7AM (winds are normally calmer then). Once you are good at calm wind landings, then go from there.
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Some of us have less than perfect cognitive ability that early in the day ;)

Most of your landings are gonna be in calmer winds, but you had to see crosswinds eventually. Probably good that you don't find them scary this soon (they aren't)

After you do it a few thousand times, there is really no difference crosswind or not- fly the plane, and do what the wind tells you to.
 
drunkenbeagle said:
Some of us have less than perfect cognitive ability that early in the day ;)

Most of your landings are gonna be in calmer winds, but you had to see crosswinds eventually. Probably good that you don't find them scary this soon (they aren't)

After you do it a few thousand times, there is really no difference crosswind or not- fly the plane, and do what the wind tells you to.
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Then do them at night. ;) (I actually love landing at night. I find it easier.)
 
Focus on what it takes to make a good approach. Don't put too much emphasis on "good" landings, they will naturally follow as a result.
 
jmartinezm said:
I noticed he was switching back and forth between left rudder and right rudder,
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In this beginning phase of learning to fly, you will get many opinions and methods of handling the use of ailerons and rudder, but the one thing that will always be a constant is: using the rudder to point the nose straight down the runway.

Regardless of what you do with the ailerons, or the elevator, or the throttle, which is where the variables are, and what makes the landing so complex; the one constant and primary control for direction down the runway is: rudder.

You noticed how your instructor kept switching back and forth with the rudder. Next time look at the nose of the airplane, looking down the runway, at the pointed direction, not the pitch and flare, but look at how the direction of the nose is kept pointed down the runway with the rudder; literally pushing the nose back to centerline with rudder pressures.

No matter what else is happening with the ailerons, or elevator, or throttle, keep you main focus on ruddering the nose back to centerline.

The rest will follow. :cool:
 
Here's a trick that works really well.... on short final, get in the habit of pulsing your feet... Left, right, left, right, left, right, etc.
Keep the feet moving, and your body will quickly associate the aircraft yaw (controlled with the feet) with the visual, and actual, track of the plane to touchdown. Don't worry about 'thinking' which pedal you need. It becomes instinct in no time, so long as you keep those feet pulsing left and right.
This technique is invaluable should you move on to taildraggers, where constant rudder adjustment and control is essential.
 
Thanks for all the information guys! The suggestion with the "fight for the centerline with the stick and keep the nose forward with the rudders" did the trick, I did a pretty good job of crabbing into the wind and transitioning to the sideslip before flying over the runway, but the only thing now is that I get too anxious that I'm gonna land flat and just balloon back up in the air and I start my flare way too high.. but it's definitely a doing experience, I got a good feel for the rudders yesterday! Now I just gotta stop flaring at like 500'.....(ok, more like 20, but still :( )
 
jmartinezm said:
Thanks for all the information guys! The suggestion with the "fight for the centerline with the stick and keep the nose forward with the rudders" did the trick, I did a pretty good job of crabbing into the wind and transitioning to the sideslip before flying over the runway, but the only thing now is that I get too anxious that I'm gonna land flat and just balloon back up in the air and I start my flare way too high.. but it's definitely a doing experience, I got a good feel for the rudders yesterday! Now I just gotta stop flaring at like 500'.....(ok, more like 20, but still :( )
Click to expand...

Don't even think about flaring - confuses new pilots too much. Try to fly over the runway as long as you can. Instead of thinking "Flare," think "Fly straight and sink as slowly as possible." Don't let the airplane climb back up, just fly it such that it is descending very slowly, and losing airspeed very slowly. The aircraft will land itself (this works for trikes & taildraggers)

This thing to watch out for is that if you touch down with the airspeed too high, you instructor will complain about your landings being too "flat." Keeping the nose high requires that the aircraft be just above stall speed at touchdown. IMHO, full stall landings are much more difficult and shouldn't be stressed until a stabalized approach, crosswind correction, and rate of descent are mastered.
 
The actual flare process is all about patience. Pretty soon you'll learn your plane and know just when to put the wheels on the pavement. No sooner, no later. I remember in the beginning, I just wanted the landing to be over with so i'd try to force the plane on the runway. I'd cross the threshold and then BAM! flare like crazy trying to grab the runway like a hawk swooping down on a mouse or something haha. The way i think about it now (the actual flare) is keeping the same couple feet over the runway. Then, as the plane starts to sink down toward the runway i pull up a quarter inch to maintain those 3-4 feet (this slows it down)...it begins to sink a little more, another quarter inch of back pressure (even slower)...finally, you're at Vso. (Not that you should be looking at your airspeed, but outside) which you will come to recognize just by the feeling in the yoke and the sight picture outside and begin pulling back for that "nose high" attitude thereby closing the 3-4 foot gap between the wheels and the pavement. I'm not a CFI (yet) but I wish my instructor would have done a better job explaining all of that to me instead of letting me make a donkey out of myself. Turns out her landings were pretty crappy too though haha. Anway. have a good weekend.
 
I agree... forget about the term 'flare.'
Really, what you want to do is transition smoothly to the landing attitude. The landing attitude, of course, is a slightly nose high/tail low attitude. Before flight, sit in the seat, and have your instructor push down on the tail (from outside the plane, of course), raising the nose slightly off ground. Try to memorize that visual, as that is the landing attitude.

As you approach the touchdown, gradually transition the plane's approach attitude to the landing attitude. The plane will land almost by itself. No need to even think about a flare, just a smooth transition to the landing attitude.
 
empire said:
As you approach the touchdown, gradually transition the plane's approach attitude to the landing attitude. The plane will land almost by itself. No need to even think about a flare, just a smooth transition to the landing attitude.
Click to expand...
Good advice for sure, but, uh, isn't that what a landing flare IS?
 
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