Some doubts about Phoenix East Aviation

[quazirfan]

I want to start my pilot training at Phoenix East Aviation, Deytona Beach, Florida(Part 141). But, I am a little worried about the cost. It says its gonna take $41,581(FAA minumum) considering about 20% over budget for additional flight hours and the fuel surcharge, it will be around $50,000. So far it was ok with me, but then they say, for getting a job as CFI there I have to completer another 3 courses, 1.CFI, 2.CFII, and 3.MEI which is going to take another $18,336. Total making it $68,336. Isn't it too much?


Another thing is I have to bear my living expense myself. But, Phoenix says, the F-1 visa they issue wont allow me to work, excapt their CFI. But, Ive heard that PEA students do some small job to make up for their living expense. Can someone elighten me about this issue? The bottom line is I cann't bring every penny from my homeland(Bangladesh).


It would be a pleasue for me if there is any Phoenix East Student here, or possible to contact one to talk. I have made up mind to go there, but some of these figures are very disturbing. I dont wanna come back empty handed.


One thing I would like to point out is that I am a indie game developers. So, If I continue my interdependent game development over there, would it cause violation of visa regulations?(if F-1 absolutely prohibits anything that brings money to your pocket)


If you have any experience with PEA then please share. Dont post anything just of our speculation. Thanks.

 

[Pépé le Pilot]

You would need a J-1 to work as a CFI, see if they can issue you this visa ? I find PEA pretty expensive, especially for the DAB area, which is one of the cheapest in the US to train. You should definitely do your homework, there are at least 3 schools that welcome foreign students.
It is correct though that you need your CFI at least to start working. You can get the II and MEI along the way.

 

[quazirfan]

There are at least 3 schools that welcome foreign students.

Are you saying that among the 3 schools that welcome international student, Phoenix East Aviation is not one of them?

It is correct though that you need your CFI at least to start working. You can get the II and MEI along the way.

What is the usual cost & time requires to get a CFI certificate?

 

[NickH]

The J1 visa's have been replaced with F1 programs, many of which run through community colleges. There are now dozens of schools which offer these programs. However, for any type of student visa you will be required to show that you have the funds for the training and living expenses before you arrive.

Many of these schools are at the more expensive end of the market, $60,000 is a reasonable estimate. Beware of less reputable schools taking advantage of foreign students. If it seems dramatically cheaper, research! It probably isn't!

 

[squeezemylemon]

Damn. i paid 30000$ 0 h to cpl plus meii cfii. in 1996

Sent from a droid.

 

[Pépé le Pilot]

I didn't know about the J-1. Yes, in the Daytona area you can go check Epic Aviation, Sunrise Aviation, they are accredited to issue training visas to foreign students. You will have to demonstrate that you can finance your entire program+housing, food etc. Sunrise offers housing, not sure about Sunrise.
Yeah me too, $32000 at American Flyers, 0 to CFII with multi in 1997. How times have changed.

 

[quazirfan]

I didn't know about the J-1. Yes, in the Daytona area you can go check Epic Aviation, Sunrise Aviation, they are accredited to issue training visas to foreign students. You will have to demonstrate that you can finance your entire program+housing, food etc. Sunrise offers housing, not sure about Sunrise.
Yeah me too, $32000 at American Flyers, 0 to CFII with multi in 1997. How times have changed.

Epid and Sunrise, and is the third one is Phoenix East?

I dont understand by what mean, 0 to CFII.

Sorry Im getting confused.

 

[Pépé le Pilot]

Yes, Epic, Sunrise and PEA are the M-1 visa schools in the DAB area.
0 hour all the way to CFII was what I meant, I guess I should've been clearer.
Do not hesitate to put them in a bid, do not pay everything upfront, check that the housing is not so far that you have to buy a car or that they have a shuttle service. These schools are reputable, they have been around for a long time, lots of Indian students at PEA and Sunrise and Chinese at Epic.

 

[Sandlapper]

ATP is also a M-1 visa school at DAB. There were a few indian students there when I went for a visit a few weeks ago. They have a Part 141 program for International students.

 

[cfitime]

Do not do part 141 training. I repeat, do not do part 141. You must look at 61 only. I went to PEA stay away from DAB.

 

[Pépé le Pilot]

You care elaborate for our friend ? I personally disagree with you post.

 

[Krieger]

Do not do part 141 training. I repeat, do not do part 141. You must look at 61 only. I went to PEA stay away from DAB.

Since he is foreign he most likely cannot be trained unless that school issues a VISA. Which would be a 141.

 

[Pépé le Pilot]

Outside the visa thing, let's hear our friend's arguments...

 

[quazirfan]

Yes, Epic, Sunrise and PEA are the M-1 visa schools in the DAB area.
0 hour all the way to CFII was what I meant, I guess I should've been clearer.
Do not hesitate to put them in a bid, do not pay everything upfront, check that the housing is not so far that you have to buy a car or that they have a shuttle service. These schools are reputable, they have been around for a long time, lots of Indian students at PEA and Sunrise and Chinese at Epic.

They told me that the whole payment is distributed into 5 parts.

Here is what they sent me:
In order to become a commercial pilot, you need at least the Private License, Instrument Rating, Commercial License, and Multi-Engine Rating. This takes about 10-12 months on average. Our ground schools start every four weeks, but you can start your training at any time!
The cost of this program (Basic Course with Multi Engine Course) is $41,581. Since all our courses are based on the minimum FAA requirements, we suggest considering about 20% over budget for additional flight hours and the fuel surcharge, making it around $50,000. Both the length of the course and the over budget largely depends on one’s proficiency and dedication. The ground schools, books, and written and flight exams are included in the price.
You do not have to pay everything upfront. We have a payment plan whereby we spread out the program cost over about 5 payments during the length of the program.
Sometimes there is an additional need to do the Instructor Ratings in order to gain more flight hours before being able to apply for a job at an airline. There are three Instructor Ratings: CFI, CFII, and MEI. The cost for all three Instructor Ratings is $18,336. As a general rule we hire our graduates as paid flight instructors, including international students who are on the F1 visa.
As to housing: We work with various apartment complexes right in our area. Most of our students prefer to share an apartment to minimize the cost. You are then looking at about $300-$400 rent per month, per person. You have your own bedroom and bathroom. If you prefer to live by yourself, you are looking at about $500-$600 rent per month.
Phoenix East Aviation is an accredited flight school (there are only 7 in the US) that has been authorized by the U.S. government to issue the F1 visa, which gives you a one-year work authorization when you finish your training to work as a paid flight instructor with us. As an accredited flight school, we also have agreements with various universities for credits toward a college degree. You can actually study for a degree while doing your training at PEA.
In order to have some more information about our school, I have included a link from a magazine article about PEA: http://www.autopilotmagazine.com/dis...icle1288800632

Jan Blonk
Admissions Officer

I have talked to an Emirates Captain(+18,500 flying hour, who even was an Instructor at Phoenix East once), and he told me its very easy to complete all these courses withing 1 year if I am dedicated enough and get the opportunity to fly regularly. Then doesn't all these music feels like noise?

 

[quazirfan]

Do not do part 141 training. I repeat, do not do part 141. You must look at 61 only. I went to PEA stay away from DAB.

It would be great if you clarify you post. Cause, without Part 141 course they wont allow me visa(Im not quite sure about it, correct me if Im wrong)

and Can you tell me what you know about PEA? Any experience. Please share only if that's what you faced, not what you've heard of.

& what's bad about DAB?

 

[Pépé le Pilot]

They told me that the whole payment is distributed into 5 parts.

Here is what they sent me:
In order to become a commercial pilot, you need at least the Private License, Instrument Rating, Commercial License, and Multi-Engine Rating. This takes about 10-12 months on average. Our ground schools start every four weeks, but you can start your training at any time!
The cost of this program (Basic Course with Multi Engine Course) is $41,581. Since all our courses are based on the minimum FAA requirements, we suggest considering about 20% over budget for additional flight hours and the fuel surcharge, making it around $50,000. Both the length of the course and the over budget largely depends on one’s proficiency and dedication. The ground schools, books, and written and flight exams are included in the price.
You do not have to pay everything upfront. We have a payment plan whereby we spread out the program cost over about 5 payments during the length of the program.
Sometimes there is an additional need to do the Instructor Ratings in order to gain more flight hours before being able to apply for a job at an airline. There are three Instructor Ratings: CFI, CFII, and MEI. The cost for all three Instructor Ratings is $18,336. As a general rule we hire our graduates as paid flight instructors, including international students who are on the F1 visa.
As to housing: We work with various apartment complexes right in our area. Most of our students prefer to share an apartment to minimize the cost. You are then looking at about $300-$400 rent per month, per person. You have your own bedroom and bathroom. If you prefer to live by yourself, you are looking at about $500-$600 rent per month.
Phoenix East Aviation is an accredited flight school (there are only 7 in the US) that has been authorized by the U.S. government to issue the F1 visa, which gives you a one-year work authorization when you finish your training to work as a paid flight instructor with us. As an accredited flight school, we also have agreements with various universities for credits toward a college degree. You can actually study for a degree while doing your training at PEA.
In order to have some more information about our school, I have included a link from a magazine article about PEA: http://www.autopilotmagazine.com/dis...icle1288800632

Jan Blonk
Admissions Officer

I have talked to an Emirates Captain(+18,500 flying hour, who even was an Instructor at Phoenix East once), and he told me its very easy to complete all these courses withing 1 year if I am dedicated enough and get the opportunity to fly regularly. Then doesn't all these music feels like noise?

PEA's email seems fair, nothing fishy about it. I was a CFI there in 1999, and appart from a few things it was a decent operation. They have survived the post-2001 chaos, and are doing well with a modern fleet. Training in the DAB area has its ups and down, one thing is sure, you'll come back with great radio skills and traffic scan. Now with the industry being what it is, it is nowhere near as crowded as it was back in 1998-2000 when I was CFIing in the area. The part 141 is a great way to go, if you study hard and is dedicated. English doesn't seem to be a problem for you. This is where part 141 can be a problem for say Saudi and Chinese students. They seem to insist a lot on this accreditation thing, and use it to justify higher prices. However, the possibility to work as a CFI is a great way to build experience. Also one thing, as soon as you become a CFI, you will be eligible to corporate discount, so only pay for your CFI upfront, and just study the rest on your own.

 

[cfitime]

I was there in 99 as well. I probably spent some nights drinking with you. 141 sucks because the pace of the training moves fast and once you get behind it's a downward spiral. The syllabus does not allow to move backwards and this sets many students up for stage check failures. Once students start failing stage checks it can make training difficult and many drop out. 141 is good for some however most students look back and wish they had gone 61. I'm sure 141 is fine for the OP. You just need to be dedicated and hope you get a good instructor. Don't be afraid to fire your CFI and ask for another if it isn't clicking.

 

[NickH]

Only schools with 141 programs can issue visas, however that does not mean you have to follow only a 141 course while attending.

141 for instrument is probably a good idea in a comprehensive program.

 

[quazirfan]

PEA's email seems fair, nothing fishy about it. I was a CFI there in 1999, and appart from a few things it was a decent operation. They have survived the post-2001 chaos, and are doing well with a modern fleet. Training in the DAB area has its ups and down, one thing is sure, you'll come back with great radio skills and traffic scan. Now with the industry being what it is, it is nowhere near as crowded as it was back in 1998-2000 when I was CFIing in the area. The part 141 is a great way to go, if you study hard and is dedicated. English doesn't seem to be a problem for you. This is where part 141 can be a problem for say Saudi and Chinese students. They seem to insist a lot on this accreditation thing, and use it to justify higher prices. However, the possibility to work as a CFI is a great way to build experience. Also one thing, as soon as you become a CFI, you will be eligible to corporate discount, so only pay for your CFI upfront, and just study the rest on your own.

What are the 'apart from a few things' and the 'downs of DAB area'?

What the Emirates captain told me is, there is nothing much to study(I am already on my 3rd year of 4 year BSc. on Computer Science, but I am dropping it) on FBO training and it takes only 1 year to complete all the training. So, does 'study hard' means, 'training hard'?

He told me, its all how much and frequently I fly. But, there is no where mentioned anything like that. Even in Part 141 training, everyone seems to insist that its gonna take long(several months) on each certificate.

All of these sounds pretty contradictory to me. Am I missing something?

 

[Pépé le Pilot]

Dude, nothing is ever perfect in this world, DAB is a training-intensive area, so prepare for some take-off delays, incomprehensible radio calls from foreign students etc. I think you're listening a little bit too much about your "Emirates captain". Saying that there's nothing much to study is pure baloney, trust me you going to study your ass off, especially in 141 that has a nice pace. True, you're not going for a JAA ATP but there's still an healthy amount of stuff to learn and put to practice. You also seem to be skeptical about everything, not sure about your state of mind, are you just considering this career as an alternative to your Computer Science BSc ? Flying is a highly demanding career, where your job will be put on the line every 6 months, it demands a lot of sacrifices, hard studying. Don't think that once your commercial ticket in hand you won't have to open a book again. This is just the beginning. Once you'll be handed the ground school for an A320, you'll understand what studying hard means.
Once again, carefully consider this career. I don't know about the Bengladeshi aviation market, but before you spend this amount of money, think twice. And you might want to keep going on you degree. In these days, a college degree is a requirement for most airlines on top of your pilot course.