United 93 - Accident Investigation

"This is a self-confirming hypothesis for the people who hold it," Meigs says. "In that sense it is immune from any kind of refutation and it is very similar to, if you've ever known a really hardcore, doctrinaire Marxist or a hardcore fundamentalist creationist. They have sort of a divine answer to every argument you might make."
 
Ive learned through working within the government and military that things are rarely as they seem. Not saying everything is a conspiracy, but there often things that run the spectrum from making no logical sense, all the way to being outright lies and obsfucations.

So, I don't automatically write off every skeptical outlook at certain events in our history; but try to keep it within a realistic perspective based on some of my own observations and experiences. I don't take the government at its word, nor do I believe them to be the evil 24/7. Somewhere in the middle will always lie the truth.
 
It's ok, Darren thinks the entire universe came from nothing, he's bat-poop crazy. :)

Qutch is my new favorite member.
 
O.K. now Brian and Darren. . Let's take this again, real slow this time.

I don't know what happened to JFK. . All I know is that many of those officials, investigators and witnesses closest to the actual event felt that in the end, "all was not what it seemed." . Especially among the government officials familiar with how government and military work (the officials in the video clips that you didn't watch). . All was not what it seemed. .

Calm down you two. . Everything will be O.K.


Qutch said:

The Evidence -
I don't know what happened to JFK . . What I do know is that the people who were there, the people who were front-and-center in the investigation, they didn't believe the Official story . .

Below- a small sample of the people who were there who didn't believe the Official Story. The Official Story is not settled history.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tosw3kKsKDY President LBJ had a secret recording system in the Oval Office. LBJ wanted Texas and the Congress to halt their investigations into JFK's murder. . This is a recorded conversation between FBI Director Hoover and LBJ discussing how they can get the country to accept Hoover's already written conclusion that Oswald, and Oswald alone committed the murder. . The Official report had been written prior to the investigation. .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yY4qwAocdnA President Gerald Ford's declassified FBI file reveals that all of the Commissioners did not really agree with the report's conclusion. .

Assassination of President Kennedy (clip) Senator Cooper- Commissioner reveals that he didn't really believe the Official version of the story that he signed off on -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7Zk5LNWY8U (Dallas Police Chief Jesse Curry agreeing with Professor Peter Scott that the evidence indicated that a second gunman was involved)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeSug5GVCg8 (President LBJ expressed doubts)


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Qutch said:
Darren, which "conspiracy theorist" were you referring to? . The President of the United States? . The Dallas Police Chief riding in the car ahead of JFK? . Or were you referring to the Commissioners themselves who didn't believe their own Official Report? You forgot to specify.
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Umm, what? Non of those people have EVER said to me... "This information has never been released to the public, but PM me and I'll tell you where to find it."

Qutch said:
I really wasn't trying to lay a trap for you guys, but it seems that you laid a trap for yourselves and then stumbled into it all by yourselves .. You see, the post time stamps show that you posted your sarcastic reply within minutes of my very lengthy post, and before I had finished editing it. . Not really time enough to read it all carefully, go through all the video testimony, then compose and post your own thoughtful response. . You posted before going through it carefully, revealing that you didn't see the video testimony and that you had already made up your mind without bothering with the facts in the videos. . Then you apparently completely missed the fact that the video testimony was of public officials who had themselves come to suspect a conspiracy. . Finally, your lighting fast thoughtless responses revealed the fact that you guys are still hanging out in this thread all day waiting to pounce. . Don't you guys have anything better to do?

Next time, you guys might want to wait a while so it isn't so obvious that you're all glued to this thread waiting to pounce. . You made it too easy. . Thanks for the gift. .
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That was a sarcastic reply? Try again genius. (Was that sarcasm obvious enough for you?) So, let me get this straight. You consider a one line reply 8 minutes after you post to be lightning fast? I actually did watch the 1st 2 videos you posted, neither was a minute long. That was all I needed to see to discount your "evidence". You continue to draw faulty conclusions because you only see what you want to see. Your incorrect assumptions of my effort in assessing your post is yet more proof of this. I already know I can't argue with your kind of thinking, so I don't bother anymore, if you think you are presenting something new, you are mistaken.
 
Qutch said:
O.K. now Brian and Darren. . Let's take this again, real slow this time.
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This from the guy who thinks 8 minutes to type out one line is "lightning fast". And yet more of a typical conspiracy theory thinking. "Anyone who doesn't see it their way is an idiot."
 
Whoa there buddy. I merely pulled a portion of the article Doug quoted that I felt explains why I never get into these debates with hardcore conspiracy theorists. Based on your posts I would not say that you are one of those people.
In all reality this is a debate I should have kept the keys static for. Too much is lost in typing and the flow of an internet board never follows that of an actual conversation. To me it is impossible to have an actual adult debate when not in the same room, preferably with some beer. There is too much that is left to interpretation without the benefit of inflection.
I shall now return to lurker status on this particular thread.
 
Can I ask one thing? On the tenth anniversary, please...not who, how, or why...can it be about those we lost, and the brave souls we are losing now? Can we remember the ones that died that day, the people that showed up for work, both in the crash sites, and those that came to rescue them?
 
For my part, I think that trying to understand why and how it happened is the best (possibly the only) way to honor those who died. Sentimentality is every man's lot, but I'd like for my grief and outrage to mean something and coneviably even change things. Maudlin sentiment, by itself, means nothing. But if it can be harnessed to the engine of understanding, it's actually done something.
 
Nothing happened to JFK. I fly out of his airport every month!

Nasty toilets though... Pooo! Man.
 
To kind of throw this off topic a bit. Maybe the professionals can confirm it. I was having a beer with a friend the other day. We got into talking about 9/11. He brought up a good conversation about the other planes that were suppose to be involved in the attack but due to the air stoppage, never made it. Something like 13 planes total. I dunno, just pondering the thought of there might have been more ready to go? There seems to be a lot of UNOFFICIAL info online about it. Damn! Im in the conspiracy realm now.:crazy:
 
darrenf said:
Nobody is making that argument. You surprise Boris, I thought such pedestrian arguments beneath you.
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*shrug*. That seems to be the general sense amongst those who are anti "conspiracy theory". I disbelieve the nutters as much as you do, but I'm 100% in favor of looking to see with a fair and open eye. I think the unwillingness of the mass media to even talk about these things only contribues to their popularity.
 
Boris Badenov said:
*shrug*. That seems to be the general sense amongst those who are anti "conspiracy theory". I disbelieve the nutters as much as you do, but I'm 100% in favor of looking to see with a fair and open eye. I think the unwillingness of the mass media to even talk about these things only contribues to their popularity.
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So, if the mass media doesn't discuss something, that leads credence to the subject they are ignoring?? I don't hear them talking about the Wacofan/Badenov campaign, so does that mean you guys are a force to be reckoned with in 2012?
A "fair and open eye" can discern evidence from tripe. Most of the posters in this thread who complain about closed mindedness have neither a fair nor an open eye.
 
darrenf said:
All I want to say is that this pretty much sums up the method and motivation of every conspiracy theorist I have encountered.
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I think Darren was trying to say that Qutch is trying to get to get you to buy his book or something.

Somehow I don't think Qutch is trying to sell us anything, except a better understanding of how things work in the real world.
 
SeanD said:
To kind of throw this off topic a bit. Maybe the professionals can confirm it. I was having a beer with a friend the other day. We got into talking about 9/11. He brought up a good conversation about the other planes that were suppose to be involved in the attack but due to the air stoppage, never made it. Something like 13 planes total. I dunno, just pondering the thought of there might have been more ready to go? There seems to be a lot of UNOFFICIAL info online about it. Damn! Im in the conspiracy realm now.:crazy:
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Doesn't sound familiar to me.

Let me get the frequency from Kenneth and I'll check those sources. Almost out of Benzedrine, oh oh.
 
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