Logging PIC during training but not current?
- Thread starter Pachong
- Start date
drunkenbeagle
Gang Member
Sole Manipulator, and you are rated in category and class - so yes. You can't act PIC though (the CFI is), but you can log it.
Fly_Unity
Well-Known Member
Also if your talking about your landing currency? (since you did mention passengers) You can ACT and LOG PIC. (you just cant take passengers)
If your flight review has expired, then you may LOG PIC if your the sole manipulator, but your CFI would have to be the one that ACTS as PIC.
Mike H
Well-Known Member
the 90 day currency is ONLY for carrying passengers.
you can fly solo all you want and never carry any passengers, or you can fly solo long enough to do your 3 take offs & 3 landings- which makes you current to carry passenges, or you can do 3 take offs & 3 landings with a CFI and become current to carry passengers. You can even do your spin endorsement with a CFI and not become current to carry passengers if you only do one take off & one landing. Lots of combinations
you can fly solo all you want and never carry any passengers, or you can fly solo long enough to do your 3 take offs & 3 landings- which makes you current to carry passenges, or you can do 3 take offs & 3 landings with a CFI and become current to carry passengers. You can even do your spin endorsement with a CFI and not become current to carry passengers if you only do one take off & one landing. Lots of combinations
MidlifeFlyer
Well-Known Member
The number of CFIs who misunderstand the logging rules has diminished over the past 10 years but they are still out there.
Maurus
The Great Gazoo
Also known as my previous boss.
"It doesn't matter if you have a letter from the Chief Counsel, we aren't going to log PIC because of......................................................liability issues."
drunkenbeagle
Gang Member
And they would be wrong... I would just write it in the logbook yourself the next day.
gotWXdagain
Polished Member
Writing PIC in a row that a CFI has signed, without said CFI's knowledge, can be bad ju ju. At least it would be for me if I caught a student doing that.
Blackhawk
Well-Known Member
If a CFI had an issue I'd tell him/her to bring it on. The FSDO might want to have a discussion with this CFI on logging of PIC time.
MidlifeFlyer
Well-Known Member
Did it in mine after my complex training - CFI thought I couldn't log it as PIC.
The CFI endorsement covers the flight training received.
==============================
(h) Logging training time.
(1) A person may log training time when that person receives training from an authorized instructor in an aircraft, flight simulator, or flight training device.
(2) The training time must be logged in a logbook and must:
(i) Be endorsed in a legible manner by the authorized instructor; and
==============================
You'll also find a specific requirement for a CFI signature for using sim time. But you won't find it in any other 61.51 logging rule.
The CFI's signature applies to the training listed in the remarks and the time in the training received columns. If the CFI wants to indicate that I received training for only .7 of a 1.5 hour flight, that's the CFI's prerogative. But the pilot is entitled to put correct entries in the rest of the 61.51 columns.
Fly_Unity
Well-Known Member
I later logged all my tailwheel training as PIC after the instructor signed it when he said I could not.
irate:
Rotor2Wing
Unapologetically American
No kidding, There are whole schools teaching this crap! I just don't understand how people get this so messed up. Its 2 seperate regs (logging vs. acting) very simple. I had a discussion with a whole CFI class the other day about not being able to log their HP and complex endorsement training as PIC. They all said "oh no we can't act as PIC until we are signed off" and I said "exactly, were talking about logging not acting, look it up"
IMO it would be bad ju ju for the CFI. He would be minus one less student if I had a CFI ordering me around like a high school student on what I can write in my logbook.
I later logged all my tailwheel training as PIC after the instructor signed it when he said I could not.
Exactly
MidlifeFlyer
Well-Known Member
Well, "PIC" being different from "PIC" depending on whether you are talking about flying an aircraft or writing numbers in a book is hardly the most intuitive concept out there. Even those who mostly understand it still make mistakes. Mostly I think the understanding is getting better as a result of the number of online discussions of the subject and the wider availability of the FAA Chief Counsel's written opinions on the subject. Even online, those discussions used to be far more frequent and far more heated than they are now.
drunkenbeagle
Gang Member
The pilot that owns the logbook is the one signing to say it is accurate. I only fill out the dual received and remarks, and signature. The rest is up to the pilot that owns the logbook.