EMS Pilots

[Ag89]

I have a couple of questions for anyone who is or has been an EMS Pilot. It looks like a line of work that would be very rewarding, and the schedules seem outstanding (7on/7off). Does the employer generally give you a place to stay for your 12 hrs off each day during your hitch if you are commuting? And is your 7 on split into day/night shifts?
Any other pros or cons would be appreciated.

 

[Dugie8]

I'm not a rotor wing nut job but I fly fixed wing EMS. Most places probably are not going to provide housing for your 12 hours off. There are a few places in the SW where you live on the Indian Reservation, pay a small fee and live in the "company" trailer home during your rotation(s). Most places that do 7 and 7 have you work a 7 day stretch as days then the next 7 days as nights. We do a 6 and 3 with 3 day shifts, 3 night shifts off for 3 BUT our aircraft is tied to the hospital so we don't pull the BS of sending crews out to rot in hotels and try to pick up flights from local hospitals, we get to be home everynight/day.

I will say this about EMS flying, it is very rewarding but be perfectly clear on one thing, you are nothing more than the ambulance driver. The Med crews do all the real work your primary and only focus is completing the flight safely and efficiently, in that order. Despite what some "managers" will try to push, the FAA does care if you break duty and weather rules. Lifeguard is not carte blanche to ignore the book.

 

[Ag89]

I will say this about EMS flying, it is very rewarding but be perfectly clear on one thing, you are nothing more than the ambulance driver. The Med crews do all the real work your primary and only focus is completing the flight safely and efficiently, in that order. Despite what some "managers" will try to push, the FAA does care if you break duty and weather rules. Lifeguard is not carte blanche to ignore the book.

Agreed, pushing weather or maint issues in order to "save" somebody could likely end up with more people needing saved.
I understand that some EMS companies won't tell the pilot the age of the patient for that very reason, is that true?

 

[MikeD]

Agreed, pushing weather or maint issues in order to "save" somebody could likely end up with more people needing saved.
I understand that some EMS companies won't tell the pilot the age of the patient for that very reason, is that true?

Some companies don't give specific patient info to the pilot/flight crew. Really, it shouldn't matter from the pilot perspective. A patient is a patient. They all get the best service possible consistent with safety and policy.

 

[Area 5150]

We work 3 days on, 2 off or 2 on and 3 off. Most of our pilots here at Life Air Rescue come from other areas, such as Oil Companies, Ex Military, Private sector and all have 1,000's of hours log before they are considered to fly for a Hospital Flight program. Now, not sure that applies everywhere, but here at L.A.R. that is what is required. Like any aircraft, the Pilot is the final say on whether we go or not, depending on weather mins, MX issues or whatever the case might be. Sometimes our pilots will assist in loading and off-loading, but usually if we are on a street scene, we stay hot, meaning the pilot keeps the rotors spinning and keeps us ready to lift off. We, as the crew will help him look for any obstacles during landings and take offs. We are always looking for trees, cars, powerlines etc. We are his extra set of eyes. And usually but not always, on a street scene, police or fire will give us a LZ officer to help secure a landing area for us.

Our program is really good at getting out to these rural areas around the Ark-La-Tex and giving ground schools to fire/police. It gives them the chance to understand what we need and what we can do to assist them.

It's a great job. PM me if you have any specfic questions that I can answer, or I can answer in here. Either way.

 

[Dugie8]

As pilots we do need to know things about the patient(s). If it is a vented patient and we are going a long distance, the LOX needs to be on, an infant, we need the isolette, nearing the end of the duty period and the patient is in very bad shape and the nearest hospital to the pickup airport is 60 miles away; there may be duty issues. As PIC I need as much information as possible so I can plan a safe and legal flight. What you have to be able to do is seperate that information from any pressure to complete or even attempt the flight.

 

[MikeD]

As pilots we do need to know things about the patient(s). If it is a vented patient and we are going a long distance, the LOX needs to be on, an infant, we need the isolette, nearing the end of the duty period and the patient is in very bad shape and the nearest hospital to the pickup airport is 60 miles away; there may be duty issues. As PIC I need as much information as possible so I can plan a safe and legal flight. What you have to be able to do is seperate that information from any pressure to complete or even attempt the flight.

Correct. But specific patient demographic information isn't necessarily important to the pilot crew, so some companies choose to not have the pilot aware. Whether or not that makes a difference in the grand scheme of things, Im not sure there's any data on.

 

[Area 5150]

Agreed, pushing weather or maint issues in order to "save" somebody could likely end up with more people needing saved.
I understand that some EMS companies won't tell the pilot the age of the patient for that very reason, is that true?

It's possible. When we recieve a call, our dispatchers have a program that give locations, Lat/Long numbers to the area that we are going. If it is a area that we are familar with, we know where our LZ will be, etc. Most of the time, prior to lift off, the pilot doesn't know any of the patient info. His only concern is whether or not we meet the criteria to fly, that's it. If we do go, we all discuss what it is we are picking up and what our plan of action is as to treatment of the patient. Enroute, we are usually busy prepairing our work area, getting equipment on and ready and being the, "Other eyes" for the pilot during our flight. So, yeah, the pilot does know about the patient once we are up and flying. Trust me, we do not let emotions get in the way of a flight. Because, in the end, it's about our safety first!

The pilot has all the checks and balances on weight issues and what he needs to do to make the flight safe and a success. They know their limits and we know ours, but it is always something we discuss no matter what and it starts when we get the call. Our dispatchers get a wealth of information prior to us leaving. That info is giving to all of us to build on, but as I stated, the Pilot has the final word, ALWAYS!!!

 

[MikeD]

. Trust me, we do not let emotions get in the way of a flight. Because, in the end, it's about our safety first!

Agree. Doesn't help anyone if you wreck too. And RW EMS is already under a federal microscope as of late.

 

[Area 5150]

Agree. Doesn't help anyone if you wreck too. And RW EMS is already under a federal microscope as of late.

God, isn't it tho Mike! We get so many memos from Metro Aviation here in Shreveport. Since they are the main service center for most of the Hospital, Police, Fire helicopter fleets, we get all the, "Do's and do not's" from the FAA. Metro's office sits about 4 miles to our east!

 

[Dugie8]

Also keep in mind, not matter how much you try to distance yourself the kids are the hardest. I did a flight for a little girl, who when we got her on the aircraft couldn't see me but the whole flight (all of 45 minutes) I could hear her crying for daddy. When we unloaded her on a well lit ramp, I must have looked similiar to her dad because this little 30 pound sick as hell girl came off the cot and latched on to me with a bear hug that took both med team members to get her off.

That was a solemn ride home, to which my kids got hugged till they were sick of it.

 

[MikeD]

Also keep in mind, not matter how much you try to distance yourself the kids are the hardest. I did a flight for a little girl, who when we got her on the aircraft couldn't see me but the whole flight (all of 45 minutes) I could hear her crying for daddy. When we unloaded her on a well lit ramp, I must have looked similiar to her dad because this little 30 pound sick as hell girl came off the cot and latched on to me with a bear hug that took both med team members to get her off.

That was a solemn ride home, to which my kids got hugged till they were sick of it.

Agree. One would have to be the ultimate cyborg to be unaffected.

 

[MikeD]

God, isn't it tho Mike! We get so many memos from Metro Aviation here in Shreveport. Since they are the main service center for most of the Hospital, Police, Fire helicopter fleets, we get all the, "Do's and do not's" from the FAA. Metro's office sits about 4 miles to our east!

And EMS helo accidents have been from a number of factors. Yes, pilot error has been a big one, but it hasn't been the only one. We had one over TUS that had just come out of maintenance and ended up crashing in the center of town about a year ago, probably the worst ever fire response to an aircraft accident I've seen in my time, rivaling the Rihyad airport response to Saudia 163 in 1980. All 3 fatal, but I do wonder if they needed to be. Not too long before was the midair just next to the hospital pad in FLG.

 

[Ag89]

I just spoke with an EMS pilot here, their policy is the same as Area5150, basically dispatch asks the pilot "can you get to point A and B successfully"? If the pilot determines that they can, the phone is given to the nurse/paramedic for patient details.. Once airborne, the pilot can get the patient information if they want or need it. Otherwise it is just a transport flight. This is just their company policy, I'm sure they all vary.

I agree you would have to be a robot not to feel differently about children. That would be hard. I guess it can be rewarding and somewhat depressing sometimes if you have a hard time separating yourself from it all.
I appreciate what you all do.

Great info too.

 

[Area 5150]

Agree. One would have to be the ultimate cyborg to be unaffected.

Not sure how Dugie's flight program is setup, but for the fixed wing programs we have delt with, most of their patients are from the, "Post Hospital to another, Pre Hospital" setting. Most of the Fixed Wing flights are transfers when a patient might be in a more stable condition, (maybe not stable in the literal sense, such as, vent patients, post surg, life support, cancer..etc), but have a host of stabalizing medical interventions prior to flying to another location. Same applies when we fly a patient hospital to hospital. However, what makes fixed wing different from a roto wing operation is that we, "usually" fly to street scene. Whether it's medical related or trauma, the mechanism of injury is usually sudden and very chaotic. And if you have friends that work in the Fire Service, such as myself or Mike D you know how messy and out of hand a scene can become, esp if it is a street scene, such as a MVA, (car crash) with fatalities. Things are happening very fast, on the ground, and once we have establish patient care inside the aircraft.

And, I hope I don't sound like a total tool bag when I say this, it doesn't matter to us, (at that very moment) if it is 80 year old Grandma Jones that has had a massive MI (heart attack/cardiac arrest), or the 4 year old little girl who has major trauma to her body because of the car accident she was in has ripped her to pieces, we focus on what it is we have to do to make the outcome a little better. We are far to busy to think about this child and she losing massives amounts of blood, are job is to control it, and replenish it with IV fluids. In the back of our minds, you might attach yourself to this 4 year old, but the reality of it is that we, "Just don't"! Our attachment time or emotional connection comes after we have landed on the pad, and gotten the patient to the ER or Surgery and away from us. Only then, is when we might hit our emotional wall and we try to take care of each other, talk, we have support groups that are usually on the spot, to help those of us who need to cope with the traumatic situation we have just done. We take in the moment, we listen to our co-workers and vise versa, and we pack up, clean up and ready ourselves for the next flight. But, we do remember each and every face and each situation. And when we are fortunate enough to have done a good job that makes a difference, we try to go visit that patient, because we have become a small, but an important area of their lives and the lives of their families. That part is what makes Air Med Transport worth it. But, it is no different than working on a Fire Dept/Medic Unit service. Public Safety is one of the greatest jobs in the world, bar-none. But, that's only my opinion. I'm lucky to serve my city in both services!

 

[MikeD]

Not sure how Dugie's flight program is setup, but for the fixed wing programs we have delt with, most of their patients are from the, "Post Hospital to another, Pre Hospital" setting. Most of the Fixed Wing flights are transfers when a patient might be in a more stable condition, (maybe not stable in the literal sense, such as, vent patients, post surg, life support, cancer..etc), but have a host of stabalizing medical interventions prior to flying to another location. Same applies when we fly a patient hospital to hospital. However, what makes fixed wing different from a roto wing operation is that we, "usually" fly to street scene. Whether it's medical related or trauma, the mechanism of injury is usually sudden and very chaotic. And if you have friends that work in the Fire Service, such as myself or Mike D you know how messy and out of hand a scene can become, esp if it is a street scene, such as a MVA, (car crash) with fatalities. Things are happening very fast, on the ground, and once we have establish patient care inside the aircraft.

Agree. To me, I look at rotary-wing EMS as the 911 ambulance essentially. Whereas the fixed-wing EMS is moreso your interfacility transport ambulance. Rotary wing gets the trauma calls that are pre-hospital, fixed wing gets the medical post-hospital calls with the (most of the time) generally stable patient (to varying degrees).

 

[Area 5150]

That's it in a nutshell, Air Ambulance. No different than a ground unit, except for the fact we are a tad faster and don't transport in certain weather. Plus, we get to wear, "FLIGHT SUITS"!!! We're so cool!:hiya:

I brought up the flight suit thing, because I remember some thread in here about the C.A.P. wearing flight suits and how quick that thread got, "FUNNY"!!!

 

[MikeD]

Here's the video of the Air Methods A-Star that crashed in TUS last year and the the absolutely poor fire department response to it. 1 killed on impact, 2 survived but trapped. Video starts about 2 minutes after impact. First Engine on scene within about 4 minutes of impact. No sense of urgency by the FD, no immediate suppression being undertaken, and first suppression beginning nearly 7 minutes after impact. All perished just after being removed from the wreckage eventually.

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[undflyboy06]

If it is actually true that 2 people were still alive trapped in the wreckage I'm furious. Lack of discipline and urgency on the part of the Fire Department. If I was a relative of one of the victims that perished in the crash, I would not stop until I had everyone's testicles; (cut off with a knife) that responded to the scene in my hand before I rest.

 

[Area 5150]

I'm suprised that fire suppression was slow to get going. I assume these guys knew that it was a med flight crash, huh? I guess rescue of the crew wasn't a option because the cabin area was in flames, or did it get consumed by fire spread, minutes later?