Your Opinion Please

M

Marcus

New Member
We operate our family airplane internationally about 250 hours per year (and 150 to 200 domestic). Is it unreasonable for us to expect that the flight crew will handle the vagaries of international flight planning, permitting and so forth? Or should I be employing someone for this purpose? Your opinion would be most welcome.
 
Where are you going? Bahamas and Canada...damn right they should be doing their own trip planning. Europe, South America or deep into Mexico, better have all your ducks in a row...use a handler. My general rule of thumb is if there is a ton of GA traffic and a good "chain" FBO, there is no reason you can't handle the logistics on your own. The first couple of times we went to Tortola, we used Universal, simply because it was a secluded island (and a British territory to boot). After that, we knew all the processes and started doing it ourselves.
 
In essence, I defer to Travis, as he's done that sort of thing more than I have. That said, IIRC, you pay your flight crew rather generously, and 250 hours/year ain't much. If they don't know how to do it, certainly I think it's fair that you pay for someone to teach them (and teach them well). With that said, provided they aren't "on call" 24/7/365, and are well-compensated, IMHO it's not at all unreasonable to expect them to do the legwork. Universal is great, but mega-pricey and maybe a little bit of overkill for short trips. Colt's prices seem to be a little better, and they do fine for the short Western-Hemisphere stuff I've flown.
 
Look into Universal flight planning and weather, they have stuff thatll set up handlers, etc, flight planning. Its very nice.
 
Crockrocket- yes universal is nice, but Marcus is paying the bills. Universal is very very expensive.

TFaudree hit the nail on the head. There are a lot of trips that you can easily file yourself using something/someone like Arinc, but if you are going to and from random countries pretty far away your safest bet is using a well known handler ( they know overflight and landing permits and little tips and tricks for going specific places)

Marcus are your asking the question of should your flight crew be worried about sorting changes in passenger details/ last minute destination changes or should hire a dispatcher? With your flight schedule I wouldn't be concerned with a dispatcher. The domestic trips are a breeze and you guys don't do enough international stuff for me to see a need.
 
Thanks, I'm going to add to the budget so they can use Universal as we're planning trips to Russia, South Africa and Kenya in the next few months. They hadn't complained of the workload, but as a general policy I want them far more interested in flying than in logistics. I wasn't aware of Universal, and they hadn't mentioned it to me. Up to now our international flying had been mostly England, Germany, Jamaica and Tahiti (that was fun!). Sooo...I am going to take your kind advice. I'm somewhat new to this aircraft ownership thing, but am mostly enjoying it.
 
One further comment: I really enjoy reading this forum, as it gets me a look into how the world appears from the "pointy end". I'm not sure at all that if my crew felt abused that they'd tell me about it. Thanks for letting a non-professional chat with y'all.
 
Check into BaseOps before you go with Universal. They're now combined with Avcard/WorldFuel and you may be able to get a helluva deal if you've got all your accounts with them. Plus, you and your pilots can get some sweet reward points through FlyBuys. Maybe make it a perk for your pilots and let them keep the points for themselves. Our rep is Astrid Naparstek. She'll take good care of you. Tell her Travis from Norfolk said hello.
 
Side note:

I just read your post in the "Becoming a corporate pilot" thread. It's nice to see an owner (especially of a large jet that's owned by a family) have so much respect for the crew and their decisions. I'm sure they would greatly appreciate hearing what you have to say about them and how well they do their job. Then again, you probably do tell them, because that's what good owners do.
 
Thank you for the kind words. I have had some direct experience with other "family owners" and it is fairly easy to treat our crew well, simply by doing the opposite of what I've observed other owners do. That, of course, is not universally true, but it seems to me that a significant number of people with the resources to own and support a large jet are bullies or something close to it, and treat their staff like dirt. I hope that I never do that. I was raised better than that.

I think that when you've only used airlines, and NetJet charters, and make the transition to owning an aircraft there's a pretty steep learning curve involved. I sometimes wish that I were arrogant enough, or conceited enough to enjoy the obsequious grovelling that some FBOs do when a 550 pulls up on the ramp. But I'm not. It actually embarrasses me. I'm perfectly capable of walking from the airplane to an FBO without having certain parts of my anatomy kissed by a line service manager. Silly, huh?

I think my crew has a pretty good idea how I hope to be treated (or not treated) at an FBO and has begun selecting FBOs (when there's a choice) based on their perception of what I want. I've gotten a lot more comfortable with things as time passes. Interestingly there's an FBO at Stansted (whose name I can never remember) who once bought my little granddaughter a Winnie the Pooh stuffed animal. They've got my business forever.

The 550 is transportation. Delightful, comfortable transportation, but transportation nonetheless. Mostly I don't get involved in the processes, methodologies, etc. But I am curious. I hope that your work is satisfying and that your employers aren't jerks.

Marcus
 
It's very refreshing to read your posts Marcus. I work with Travis and we definitely don't have the best bosses but they are far from the worst. Large egos but a minimalist approach to a flight department is what we see. We get a glimpse of the good life with one of our owners who is very nice and courteous. He even allows our significant others to come along if he's on board. Definitely an unexpected and not required perk for us.
 
One of the legs we fly is literally about 140 miles, one way. Crazy, I know. But the choice of 3 hours driving or about 14 minutes in the airplane is a no brainer. I hate to drive. I am exceedingly grateful that our crew doesn't seem to think I'm insane for doing this. Or if they do, they're very good at concealing it. When we hired them, I don't know what I really expected. I guess I had the airline model in my mind, closed flight deck door, pilots who were rarely seen and rarely heard. Didn't work out that way. The guys are really good people. They're kind to my tiny granddaughter (who calls them Captain and The Other Guy), they feel like a part of our family and that startled me. We've baby sat their kids a couple of times. You can tell a lot about a person by interacting with their kids, and their little ones are nice little folk.

They've even graciously asked me a couple of times if I woiuld like to sit on the jumpseat. I did. I would never ask them. I want them to absolutely own their flight deck.
 
Yeah, you definitely sound like one of the good guys, thanks for bringing your perspective. And hey, next time you're down at the country club, see if you can uh "educate" some of your buddies? ;)
 
As a former line tech at an FBO, I also find it refreshing to read about owners like Marcus. When you have a crew who is relaxed, yet professional, our job becomes a lot easier. The same goes for owners. I have had very down to Earth, and cool conversations with owners. Then there is the opposite end of the spectrum.
 
As a former line service, it's nice to see this as well. The worst owner/operator I ever met was a televangelist who was based out of us. I prefer not to name names. In the two years I worked line, that person said hello to me once. The would come straight off of their Challenger and into their Cadillac. It was said really, no one wanted to go out of their way to help them after awhile. Pilots were nice, but that only got so far.
 
TFaudree_ERAU said:
Where are you going? Bahamas and Canada...damn right they should be doing their own trip planning. Europe, South America or deep into Mexico, better have all your ducks in a row...use a handler. My general rule of thumb is if there is a ton of GA traffic and a good "chain" FBO, there is no reason you can't handle the logistics on your own. The first couple of times we went to Tortola, we used Universal, simply because it was a secluded island (and a British territory to boot). After that, we knew all the processes and started doing it ourselves.
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Agreed. When going to a far off remote place definitely have your ducks in a row. Especially things like Iran overflight permits, Russia permits, etc. Also don't forget about European ETS requirements! Most of the local stuff a good crew should be able to do it themselves. This is a good group of people here at JC and if you guys ever need help never hesitate to ask. I would be more than happy to assist any way I can. Fly safe and good luck.
 
Thanks much, and we certainly will. Had a nice chat with the crew over coffee today, and they feel like they're getting to the right side of the learning curve with this. I pointed our Captain to this forum, and he said he would register. One of the trips we'd like to make would be to St. Petersburg, then Moscow and then home. I cannot begin to guess how much of a mess this will be.

I speak reasonably fluent Russian and there's so many places/things I'd like to see.
 
Marcus said:
Thanks much, and we certainly will. Had a nice chat with the crew over coffee today, and they feel like they're getting to the right side of the learning curve with this. I pointed our Captain to this forum, and he said he would register. One of the trips we'd like to make would be to St. Petersburg, then Moscow and then home. I cannot begin to guess how much of a mess this will be.

I speak reasonably fluent Russian and there's so many places/things I'd like to see.
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That's great! I speak Russian fluently as well so that helped me create standard procedures when operating in Russia and the CIS. It's a mess but a manageable one.
 
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