Unions???

dasleben said:
So if you just didn't show up to work tomorrow, they'd send the police after you? :yup:
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If I said the reason I was not showing up was because I was withholding services, then it is certainly possible. They would be able to go to Court and get a temporary injunction, then if I did not return to work the following day I would be considered in contempt of court and arrested, and fined. It depends on a number of factors, though, primarily how many other people are withholding services alongside me. It doesn't make much sense to go through that process when there is only one "striker", but you used the term "withholding services" which to me implies an organized effort. Even if I said nothing, and a sufficient amount of people also said nothing but we all failed to go to work they would still send people for us, after acquiring a terribly easy to get injunction enjoining us from doing anything that is against the status quo.

You find this amusing, which just goes to show how little you know about the RLA and it's sordid history.
 
SpiraMirabilis said:
If I said the reason I was not showing up was because I was withholding services, then it is certainly possible. It depends on a number of factors, though, primarily how many other people are withholding services alongside me.
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You'd have to go through the processes in the RLA before an organized strike. While it's very obtrusive to get through, it's not impossible. I'm not referring to a wildcat strike.
 
Dasleben, if what you were saying is true, then we could launch an offensive against our corporations that are also "citizens." You see in a true free market, I'm free to get myself a crowbar and kneecap somebody if they have something I need to survive (read Hobbes, it's really brutish stuff, and I believe the legal term for the acquisition of property in this manner is called "conquest." Seriously, it's a legally permissible way to acquire title to property under common law).

I can't do that with a corporation because the cards have been stacked so far against us, hence everything you're saying fails, because like everybody else has said, there is no free market, and there never will be a free market.

Not until I can kneecap a corporation, at least.
 
dasleben said:
You'd have to go through the processes in the RLA before an organized strike. While it's very obtrusive to get through, it's not impossible. I'm not referring to a wildcat strike.
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No, you asked me if I (or you) could be jailed for not showing up to work, the answer is yes I could be.

However I do not think that the NMB will ever, at least in the forseeable future, allow a large air carrier to strike. Therefore, for the majority it is indeed practically impossible, while remaining theoretically possible... which is worse than an outright ban actually. Kind of like the "Heartbeat Abortion" laws being pursued in states like Ohio, which makes it illegal to perform an abortion if any fetal heartbeat can be detected -- which can occur as soon as 6 weeks. So, about the time a woman notices she is pregnant she is no longer able to have an abortion.
 
SpiraMirabilis said:
No, you asked me if I (or you) could be jailed for not showing up to work, the answer is yes I could be.

However I do not think that the NMB will ever, at least in the forseeable future, allow a large air carrier to strike. Therefore, for the majority it is indeed practically impossible, while remaining theoretically possible... which is worse than an outright ban actually. Kind of like the "Heartbeat Abortion" laws being pursued in states like Ohio, which makes it illegal to perform an abortion if any fetal heartbeat can be detected -- which can occur as soon as 6 weeks. So, about the time a woman notices she is pregnant she is no longer able to have an abortion.
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(Which would be an unconstitutional restraint on abortion http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_Parenthood_v._Casey)
 
jtrain609 said:
Dasleben, if what you were saying is true, then we could launch an offensive against our corporations that are also "citizens." You see in a true free market, I'm free to get myself a crowbar and kneecap somebody if they have something I need to survive (read Hobbes, it's really brutish stuff, and I believe the legal term for the acquisition of property in this manner is called "conquest." Seriously, it's a legally permissible way to acquire title to property under common law).

I can't do that with a corporation because the cards have been stacked so far against us, hence everything you're saying fails, because like everybody else has said, there is no free market, and there never will be a free market.

Not until I can kneecap a corporation, at least.
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I've specifically said that you don't have the freedom to abridge someone else's freedoms. Kneecapping and tearing down corporations to suit your will doesn't quite fit the point I've been conveying. :)

You're right, by the way: We don't have a true free market. We have a society in which people believe they have a right to other people's work, and that it's noble and justified to take things from people who have more than we do.
 
dasleben said:
You're right, by the way: We don't have a true free market. We have a society in which people believe they have a right to other people's work
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You have to elaborate on this one a little bit more.


and that it's noble and justified to take things from people who have more than we do.
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I think it is necessary. In the John Galt utopia that lives only in your fantasies perhaps government is not necessary, in the real world however it is.
 
I got you back Dasleban;

With the high wages and excellent work rules at every unionized airline, they have clearly made a positive mark on today's pilot.
Keep it up ALPA, Teamsters, and every other "XXPA" out there!!
 
SpiraMirabilis said:
You have to elaborate on this one a little bit more.
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You just said that you believe it to be necessary that we take from people who have more than we do; that illustrates my point quite clearly. I do appreciate you being honest, however. I think I'm finally starting to understand the left-wing mindset!

I'm not an anarchist, by the way. Far from it.

By the way, I'm very close to filing the necessary paperwork to form my own company. Just giving you guys a heads up before I do: You may not have any part of my profits beyond what I'm legally required to pay taxes for. Why? The fruits of the work are mine. Do you guys know the definition of that? :)
 
dasleben said:
You're right, by the way: We don't have a true free market. We have a society in which people believe they have a right to other people's work, and that it's noble and justified to take things from people who have more than we do.
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I agree with the bold part. But FOR THE MOST PART it is the hired gun CEOs taking from the front line workers many who helped create the company.
 
dasleben said:
You just said that you believe it to be necessary that we take from people who have more than we do; that illustrates my point quite clearly. I do appreciate you being honest, however. I think I'm finally starting to understand the left-wing mindset!

I'm not an anarchist, by the way. Far from it.

By the way, I'm very close to filing the necessary paperwork to form my own company. Just giving you guys a heads up before I do: You may not have any part of my profits beyond what I'm legally required to pay taxes for. Why? The fruits of the work are mine. Do you guys know the definition of that? :)
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Taxation is taking by another name. I feel that it is necessary to tax in order to fund our government. And the bulk of the taxes come from those "with more than I do", even under the regressive "flat tax" pioneered by corporate mouthpieces..err libertarians. Perhaps you have another suggestion? Perhaps we could just keep selling US Treasury bonds to China?
 
dasleben said:
By the way, I'm very close to filing the necessary paperwork to form my own company. Just giving you guys a heads up before I do: You may not have any part of my profits beyond what I'm legally required to pay taxes for. Why? The fruits of the work are mine. Do you guys know the definition of that? :)
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As someone who has started and ran two companies I think I know a bit about keeping the fruits of my hard work. Both companies failed after I sold them, do you know why? One was just a bad business and I got lucky to make money and get someone to buy it off of me, but the other one failed because the guy who I sold it to didn't understand the difference his hard work and my employees hard work. I still call them my employees.

FYI: With a good business plan you shouldn't have to pay any taxes.
 
Gonzo said:
As someone who has started and ran two companies I think I know a bit about keeping the fruits of my hard work. Both companies failed after I sold them, do you know why? One was just a bad business and I got lucky to make money and get someone to buy it off of me, but the other one failed because the guy who I sold it to didn't understand the difference his hard work and my employees hard work. I still call them my employees.

FYI: With a good business plan you shouldn't have to pay any taxes.
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And with the right deductions no private citizen should be paying much in the way of taxes. I figure those that complain about the tax system the most are those that have spent the least amount of time figuring out how to leverage their position.
 
SpiraMirabilis said:
...pioneered by corporate mouthpieces..err libertarians.
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Was that really necessary? I'm not taking any of this personally; don't try to make it personal. I may not agree with you guys on politics, but I'll buy the first round at NJC. Not necessary to get heated about this and start throwing insults around.

Gonzo: I appreciate the insight into running your businesses (seriously).
 
dasleben said:
Was that really necessary? I'm not taking any of this personally; don't try to make it personal. I may not agree with you guys on politics, but I'll buy the first round at NJC. Not necessary to get heated about this and start throwing insults around.

Gonzo: I appreciate the insight into running your businesses (seriously).
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Is he wrong? Or are you just offended because you feel like you should be offended even if he's factually correct?
 
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