t-38 guys

There was one owned by C Thornton and based out of VNY that I remember. Was built from 3 wrecks IIRC.
You would be surprised at the number of them around the US, if you look hard enough. Thorton does a lot of R&D work with theirs with both Civ and Mil contracts. The T-38 you mentioned, N638TC was also used as the chase plane for the Citation X development. There are a couple of F-5Bs around (two seaters) and Ross Perot Jr has a hybrid T-38 front mated to a F-5 tail. An FBO owner in Tulsa has an awesome looking F-5B with dual EFIS cockpits.

PS...It looks like 638TC has an F-5 tail also (drag chute).
 
Wasn't me, but I wish it had been.
Were they able to get a spare huffer, and depart? If not, I'm sure they are not too upset: most of us really like Spokane, and an extra night there is nothing to whine about.

We kept having it overheat so it took about 15 minutes to get both started and on the way.

One question though. One of the aircraft had a white casket looking thing in the back. Is that for overnight clothes and stuff?
 
One question though. One of the aircraft had a white casket looking thing in the back. Is that for overnight clothes and stuff?

Thats a storage pod that straps into the rear seat. Can be used when the under-fuselage travel pod isn't available.
 
Thats a storage pod that straps into the rear seat. Can be used when the under-fuselage travel pod isn't available.
Realize that when the C-model T-38's get their new Martin-Baker seats, those seats do not have any storage in the seat kit, AND you can't put the "doghouse" in the back seat... i.e. you are committed to using the travel pod.
Yet another reason that "upgrading" the T-38 to the C-model/PMP/M-B seat configuration is a waste of money. Thank goodness Beale will stay in A-models.

Cue Hacker in 3,... 2,... 1,...
 
Realize that when the C-model T-38's get their new Martin-Baker seats, those seats do not have any storage in the seat kit, AND you can't put the "doghouse" in the back seat... i.e. you are committed to using the travel pod.
Yet another reason that "upgrading" the T-38 to the C-model/PMP/M-B seat configuration is a waste of money. Thank goodness Beale will stay in A-models.

Cue Hacker in 3,... 2,... 1,...

:D

I've only seen inside a C-model at RND, and that was for the first time a few weeks ago with their AT's. Like you, all my time is A-models. Oddly enough, I never flew with a travel pod either. Only pod I ever flew with was the SUU-20 in the B-models.
 
What is the max g on a 38? With those little wings, I doubt it could sustained any sort of high g for very long, like the 45, can't hold much for long. I've touched just over 7 but it was quick, during a tail chase. I've never had a problem with g's though of course I've only pulled any sort of g in the 34, T-2C and T-45. Well, in the TA-7C but that was as a mid, doesn't count!!!

7.3 is the max...not too tough to sustain 6.5 or more in a dogfight.
 
Realize that when the C-model T-38's get their new Martin-Baker seats, those seats do not have any storage in the seat kit, AND you can't put the "doghouse" in the back seat... i.e. you are committed to using the travel pod.
Yet another reason that "upgrading" the T-38 to the C-model/PMP/M-B seat configuration is a waste of money. Thank goodness Beale will stay in A-models.

Cue Hacker in 3,... 2,... 1,...

I love the A model.
 
This is nice getting all this info. Another question!

Is the year of manufacture the small number ahead of the ship number?

Also forgot to add this. Here are the two that were here Saturday.
 

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7.3 is the max...not too tough to sustain 6.5 or more in a dogfight.

Same as 45 then, 7.33 above 5k. I notice some studs (based on their sitting heart rate or somethign to that effect???) can't handle g's too well...I get sir I was graying out or I saw stars....dude, we pulled a max of 5.1!!! Still, the 45 can't sustain much, pull the nose with any sort of force and you go into pitch buck anyway. The Hornet guys are used to pointing their nose all over the sky, not so much here.
 
My calves were sore for 2 days from the g suit! Other than than that I wasn't sore or anything
 
Is the year of manufacture the small number ahead of the ship number?

Sorry, Daff....

It's actually the fiscal year in which the contract to build that aircraft was signed. The serial numbers are assigned by block when the USAF inks the contract with the manufacturer.

Has nothing to do with when the airplane actually rolled out the doors of the manufacturer.
 
Has nothing to do with when the airplane actually rolled out the doors of the manufacturer.

All true... however, with the high production rate of the T-38 (1,187 built... BTW, did you notice that is exactly 1000 more built than the F-22?), chances are that the jet rolled off the line in the same year as what is on the tail... not by design, though.
 
Sorry, Daff....

It's actually the fiscal year in which the contract to build that aircraft was signed. The serial numbers are assigned by block when the USAF inks the contract with the manufacturer.

Has nothing to do with when the airplane actually rolled out the doors of the manufacturer.

Thats what I was meaning. Not the actual build date/year. I wasn't clear with that while skimming over what the poster wrote.

No truer aircraft than the 117, where some successive aircraft have earlier years than others. Of course that, and other factors.
 
Yeah I know they get some sort of weird tacform fighter track/tailhook prep mini-syllabus or something....at least from what my former Vance friends have told me. I know cruise forms was the closest we got in T-34's, and I think that might have even been taken out after I left there

I don't know about the Navy students who were trained in the Vance program, but the AF students had a little intro to tac formation in the syllabus that I last taught in ('09 timeframe). It was like two blocks of about 5-6 rides each. Of course, they were still learning all of the other basic form stuff at that point, so most of them never really got that great at tac form and the T-6 was really weird for tac form anyway because we flew it so close (or so my pointy-nose brethren tell me, anyway).



I used to do a ton of incentive/orientation/cadet rides in the T-37 and T-6. One thing to remember is that your g tolerance improves with experience in that environment (or, more likely your g-strain improves). I remember going from the KC-135 back into the T-37. On the first two rides I saw stars at like 3 1/2 to 4 g if I wasn't religious about my g-strain and gave it my best squeeze (insert joke here). A year later and I would talk through 4 1/2 or 5 and not even think about a strain until 5+.

My favorite incentive ride experience: So I get this ROTC cadet for an incentive ride in a tweet, and he tells me that he's majoring in aviation, he's got his PPL, his CSEL and he's working on his MEI. So we go out and I'm thinking, "Cool, we'll actually get a chance to have some fun rather than 30 degree bank turns in the MOA." I pre-brief him to let me know how he's feeling the whole time, and if at any point during the sortie he wants to call it quits and fly around straight and level... or even come back early... that's totally ok by me. Basically, it's his dime. So we go out to the MOA and I let him do some turns, climbs, descents, etc. After that he asks if we can do a little acro. I say, "sure" and I demo a loop. I dutifully ask how he's feeling afterwords and he says he feels great, so I let him try the loop. Then I ask again. He's still feeling fine so we demo-do an aileron roll, barrel roll, split S, immelman, cuban 8, clover-leaf... basically all the basic stuff. Afterwords he still says he's feeling great, but we're about out of time and gas so I take us home and land.

We taxi into park... he unstraps and hops out of the jet... and proceeds to puke all over the ramp in front of the gear. This goes on for a good 2-3 minutes. This is the worst puke session I've ever seen in real life, before or since, and I've seen LOTS of people puke. I told him afterwords, "ya know, I kept asking if you felt alright. If you didn't, all you had to say was, 'hey, I think I've had enough' or 'hey, let's fly straight for a few minutes.' " I think he thought I was going to call him a pansy or something if he didn't feel up to 12g's and a 65 turn spin. But I was impressed that he held it in all the way to landing and taxi'ing in!
 
I think he thought I was going to call him a pansy or something if he didn't feel up to 12g's and a 65 turn spin. But I was impressed that he held it in all the way to landing and taxi'ing in!

Did you then call him a pansy for the pansy he was being on the ramp? :)
 
Tweet FAIP buddy of mine is briefing up his student... early ride in the program, maybe dollar ride, I can't remember. The student is fairly edgey about the flight. They get the chutes, walk out to the jet,... and when they walk up to the jet and the student sees it, the students stops, bends over, and hoarks all over the ramp. "We're done!", says my bud.
 
While I was at EDW, I was coordinating rides for academy cadets one summer. A good friend at Test Ops was going to have a two ship T-38 he was leading with cadets in both back seats. His cadet was bragging about how he was going to be an F-15 pilot yadda, yadda. On the turn out of traffic, Mr F-15 started barfing. Continued barfing in level flight, kept on barfing until my buddy split up the formation and came back to the pattern. Barf, barf, barf all the way down final on a straight in. He had radioed about the early return, and I met them at the chocks. Took an hour (no lie) before cadet could get out of the back seat without barfing every time he stood up. We finally got him out of he seat and handed him a bucket of water and a sponge. Took another hour to clean up. then he went onto the lounge to rest. I swear, he was as green as his flightsuit. Never heard a peep out of him about F-15's for the rest of the week.
 
At least the ride didn't end like this :o

F14.jpg


http://www.vfp62.com/F14_RIO.html

F-14 Passenger Ejects


"I'VE LOST MY RIO"
by Lt. Geoff Vickers


My squadron and air wing were detached to NAS Fallon, Nevada, for strike training. Most of us attended lectures all day, but I was tasked with giving the battle-group-air-warfare commander an orientation flight in the F-14D. As skipper of the cruiser in charge of the battle group's air defenses, he had been spending time with the air wing to better understand how we conduct our missions. He had observed a number of the strike events through the tactical-air-combat-training system (TACTS) replays, and he had flown with the E-2C and EA-6B squadrons. He was proud that the Prowler guys hadn't been able to make him sick.

My job was to demonstrate the Tomcat's performance and tactical capabilities. Though this flight was my first without a qualified radar-intercept officer (RIO) in the back seat, I had flown with a number of aviators who had very little Tomcat experience.

The Captain arrived at the squadron a half-hour before the brief to receive his cockpit-orientation lecture and ejection-seat checkout. Once in the ready room, we briefed the flight with our wingman. I covered the administrative and tactical procedures in accordance with our squadron's standard-operating procedures (SOP).

I told the Captain that after the G-awareness maneuver, we would do a quick inverted check to verify cockpit security. Looking back, I should have recognized his anxiety when he mocked me and said, "Just a quick inverted check?" then laughed. I didn't realize hanging upside down with nothing but glass and 11,000 feet of air separating you from the desert floor might not be the most comfortable situation in the world for a surface-warfare officer.

I continued the brief and told the captain we would do a performance demo and a couple of intercepts, followed by tanking from an S-3. I told him if, at any point, he felt uncomfortable, we would stop whatever we were doing, roll wings level, and take it easy. I was determined to avoid the temptation to intentionally make him sick and uncomfortable.

The start, taxi, and takeoff were normal. We joined with our lead and did the standard clean-and-dry checks. We pressed into the working area and assumed a defensive combat-spread formation in preparation for the G-warm. I told him what was happening, and he seemed to remember the sequence of events from the brief. After we completed the checks, I asked him, "Are you ready for the inverted check? Do you have everything stowed?" All set" was the last thing I heard him say.

I checked the airspeed and confirmed it was above the 300 knots recommended to do the check, and I rolled the aircraft inverted. I decided not to really put on a lot of negative G and unloaded to about .3 to .5 negative G's-just enough to make anything float that wasn't stowed properly. If he was uncomfortable in such a benign maneuver, it would be better to find out then, rather than when we were racing toward the earth during a radar-missile defense.

As I started to push on the stick, I heard a loud pop, followed by a roar. The cockpit filled with smoke, and we suddenly lost cabin pressure. I first thought a catastrophic environmental-control system (ECS) had failed. I said to myself, "This is new. I've never even heard of something like this happening."

Time compression turned the next few seconds into an eternity. I knew the first thing I had to do was to roll the jet upright and assess the situation. About three seconds after the first indication of a problem, I had the jet upright and knew exactly what had happened. transmitted, "Lion 52. Emergency, my RIO just ejected."

I was yelling into the mic, thinking I would have to make all the calls in the blind. I never would have thought I easily could communicate with all the noise of flying at 320 knots without a canopy. As I turned the jet to try and get a visual of my wayward passenger, Desert Control asked,"Understand your wingman ejected?" "Negative, my RIO ejected. I'm still flying the plane." "OK. Understand your RIO ejected. You're flying the plane, and you're OK?"

I almost said I was far from OK, but I just told them I was all right, except I was flying a convertible. I was relieved to see a good parachute below me, and I passed this info to Desert Control. Very quickly after the emergency call, an FA-18 pilot from the Naval Strike and Air-Warfare Center, who also was in the area, announced he would take over as the on-scene commander of the search-and-rescue (SAR) effort.

I told my wingman to pass the location of the Captain because I could not change any of my displays. Once my wingman started to pass the location, I started dumping gas and put the needle on the nose back to NAS Fallon.

One of our air-wing SH-60s was in the area and responded, along with the station's UH-1N. The Captain was recovered almost immediately and transported to the local hospital for treatment and evaluation. The only F-14D boldface procedures for a canopy problem include placing the canopy handle in "boost close" position and then moving the command eject lever to "pilot." Obviously, the canopy already was gone, so that lever action didn't apply, and, if the command-eject lever wasn't already in "pilot," as briefed, I also would have been ejected.

I slowed the aircraft and lowered my seat because that's what I remembered from the rest of the steps in the checklist. However, after sitting at eye-level with my multi-function display for about 30 seconds, I thought it would be more prudent to see outside, so I raised my seat. Slowing the aircraft had little affect on the windblast, but, as long as I leaned forward, the wind hit only my shoulders. Because it was very cold at altitude, I decided to return quickly to base, but I needed to watch my airspeed since the ejection had occurred.

The PCL says to fly less than 200 knots and 15,000 feet and to complete a controllability check for the loss of the canopy, but I never pulled out my PCL to reference it. I figured with the way my day was going, I'd probably just drop my PCL down an intake and complicate my problems. In retrospect, I should have requested my wingman break out his checklist and talk me through the steps. Though this practice of having a wingman assist is common in single-seat communities, Tomcat crews tend to forget this coordination technique is a viable option.

I did consider the controllability check, and I directed my wingman to check for damage to the vertical stabilizers-she found none. The faster I got on deck, the faster I would get warm. I slowed to approach speed in 10-knot increments at about 3,000 feet AGL and had no problems handling the jet. As I approached the field, I was surprised at how quiet it got. The noise was only slightly louder than the normal ECS roar in the Tomcat. I'll admit I felt silly saying the landing checklist over the ICS when no one else was in the cockpit, but I didn't want to risk breaking my standard habit patterns.

The landing was uneventful, and, when I pulled back into the line, I was surprised to find how many people had come out to see the spectacle. The magnitude of the situation finally set in when my skipper gave me a hug after I got out of the jet.

The Captain and I were very fortunate: All of the ejection and aviation-life-support-systems (ALSS) equipment functioned as expected. Our PR1 had taken the time to properly fit the captain, using components from three different sets of flight gear. This action caused a problem after the mishap-getting everyone's gear replaced-but it renewed my faith in our escape systems. A 48-year-old man ejected from the jet when it was inverted, at negative .5 G's, at 320 knots, and the only injuries he had were two minor cuts to his face.

After talking to the Captain at the O'Club later that night, I realized I better could have briefed elements of the flight. Though I covered all of the details, I didn't fully consider his perspective. He said he didn't know where to put his hands. Consequently, he just left them in loosely clenched fists on his lap, about two inches away from the ejection handle. It never occurred to me that someone would not know what to do with his hands. Obviously, I fly with the stick and throttle in my hands 95 percent of the flight, but I failed to consider his situation.

The mishap board surmised that, during the inverted maneuver, he must have flinched when he slightly rose out of the seat and pulled the ejection handle. Now, before any brief, I try to place myself in the other person's shoes (even if they are black shoes) and imagine what the flight will be like for him. Whether it is the person who never has flown a tactical aircraft before or just the nugget pilot who never has flown with NVGs, remembering what it was like when I was unfamiliar with the environment will prevent this type of mishap from recurring.

Contributed by Scott Ruby & Jim "Mugs" Morgan VFP-63
 
Did you then call him a pansy for the pansy he was being on the ramp? :)
Nah... probably should have though! The worst pansy I ever had on an incentive ride was a USMC Gunnery Sergeant. He was a recruiter and I guess he had the highest numbers in the state or something, so they worked this deal for him to get a Tweet ride as an incentive. We got out to the MOA and did one 45 degree bank clearing turn before what was supposed to be a g-exercise. He screams, "Whoa! Oh my god!"... we wound up doing MOA border patrol at 20 degrees of bank his whole sortie until the straight-in landing.
 
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