Oops...stuck mic houston center
- Thread starter flyeagle111
- Start date
dasleben
That's just, like, your opinion, man
Now let's see here...I'm not old enough to be anybody's father, but for real: Their airplane, their paycheck, and most importantly, their public image. We've all had this sort of talk (though probably not as crass!), but we all haven't put it out there in public for everyone else to hear. Whenever you wear the uniform or act in a capacity that involves your company's name, just act like a normal person and everything will be fine. Leave the crazy out of it until you change into your jeans, white sneakers, and black leather jacket. 
People have a really wide range of what they personally consider "good" versus what constitutes "oppression". Personally I feel that it is a "good" thing to restrict racist/bigoted/hateful/hurtful speech in the workplace, no matter whether the people involved consider it a "private" conversation or not. Zero tolerance for that stuff.
A person may believe that they are talking to someone with similar views, but how can they know for sure? I've got co-workers that are convinced that I share their political views and they feel free to rant on and on and on about topics that I actually strongly disagree with them about. I refuse to turn the conversation confrontational in the workplace (including the cockpit) because I think that it is not conducive to working well together, so I just nod my head and slowly work to change the subject. I find those conversations annoying and takes away from our ability to do what we are paid to do, so why should I have to put up with them? Just because someone else thinks that disallowing certain topics of conversation is "oppressive"? I don't WANT to spend my time at work arguing with a bigot or a racist, so isn't it oppressive of my rights to make me put up with those topics of conversation? In my private life I can walk away from someone that I dislike or disagree with - I can't do that in my job.
I've seen lots and lots and lots of transcripts from AIM chat. Or I occasionally play "fly on the wall" when I'm bored!
I largely don't care because haters gonna hate and if I got all verklempt over people talking smack behind my back on the internet, well, I'd be all upset about ASCII characters on the internet and we all know how silly that is.
They are fun to read over a beer!
But always assume that what's said in that wonderful cesspool of AIM gets forwarded to the person being discussed.
RightSeatGirl
KA'PLAH BITCHES!
I've got a "catch all" in my FOM so I think I would be spending an unpaid vacation or waiting for the hearing!
Absolutely true, IF, and this is a big fat giant IF with this topic, the F/O in question was in fact offended by his comments. There are plenty of measures in place to protect people if they feel slighted. What we do not know on any level here is if the F/O was a willing participant in that conversation, or a quiet victim of a ridiculous tirade. When I fly with someone I know fairly well, And I happen to know that they are either okay with, or sympathetic to certain topics, I'll talk about it..I hardly support someone being able to go off on that kind of tangent at random with anyone just because the conversation is in private. That is where good judgment must enter the picture. But it seems to me that everyone here is assuming that the F/O was victimized by this. I said it earlier, for all we know the F/O started the conversation..For all we know the two of them were best friends, or good friends..The point being, we don't know. And to assume that F/O's right to a non-hostile and professional work environment was violated is ludicrous!
And I don't need to assume the obvious Doug. You care to share these transcripts that so offended you with the rest of the class? Nothing I stated would be anything I wouldn't say to your face or to your screen directly. Otherwise why keep this old argument alive and bring it out on this thread?..That was many many months ago. It certainly does appear that you care, otherwise why alienate me on the topic in public? Perhaps we should start a thread on the issue and have it out since you seem to keep wanting to revisit it publicly..I am more than willing to let it all go if you can..I would appreciate it, with respect to the fact that this is your universe, if you would cease the little quips and jabs that illustrate your obvious continued grudge. If that is not possible for you then I suppose we are at a permanent impasse.
Absolutely true, IF, and this is a big fat giant IF with this topic, the F/O in question was in fact offended by his comments. There are plenty of measures in place to protect people if they feel slighted. What we do not know on any level here is if the F/O was a willing participant in that conversation, or a quiet victim of a ridiculous tirade. When I fly with someone I know fairly well, And I happen to know that they are either okay with, or sympathetic to certain topics, I'll talk about it..I hardly support someone being able to go off on that kind of tangent at random with anyone just because the conversation is in private. That is where good judgment must enter the picture. But it seems to me that everyone here is assuming that the F/O was victimized by this. I said it earlier, for all we know the F/O started the conversation..For all we know the two of them were best friends, or good friends..The point being, we don't know. And to assume that F/O's right to a non-hostile and professional work environment was violated is ludicrous!
And I don't need to assume the obvious Doug. You care to share these transcripts that so offended you with the rest of the class? Nothing I stated would be anything I wouldn't say to your face or to your screen directly. Otherwise why keep this old argument alive and bring it out on this thread?..That was many many months ago. It certainly does appear that you care, otherwise why alienate me on the topic in public? Perhaps we should start a thread on the issue and have it out since you seem to keep wanting to revisit it publicly..I am more than willing to let it all go if you can..I would appreciate it, with respect to the fact that this is your universe, if you would cease the little quips and jabs that illustrate your obvious continued grudge. If that is not possible for you then I suppose we are at a permanent impasse.
Bumblebee
Commodore
here here...
Dealing with this environment this season to the max! Imagine 6 months of living in a very close environment like that. I tend to make comments when there is mutual ground, but refrain from unleashing.:banghead: I have permanent holes in my tongue
Dealing with this environment this season to the max! Imagine 6 months of living in a very close environment like that. I tend to make comments when there is mutual ground, but refrain from unleashing.:banghead: I have permanent holes in my tongue
That's what some of my co-workers believe about my political leanings as well. They are wrong.
But if you can't know for sure? Years past I worked installing industrial equipment in factories, and I've seen all kinds of ignorance and intolerance. I've seen conversations where one guy is spouting racist BS and the guy next to him is going right along with him, using the same racist terms and tone. Two minutes later the second guy is telling me how much he hates that racist crap. Peer pressure is real, even among adults. Just because you think you know where others stand doesn't necessarily mean that you actually do know.
It doesn't matter whether the F/O was complicit or not. Just the possibility that he could be seriously offended is reason enough for the company to have rules against that kind of behavior.
EDIT TO ADD: My replies above are in response to a post that you subsequently changed, so it may read strangely to some...
Absolutely. Different companies have various standards.
I think what's important for people to realize is some operators may have set standards for decorum and others may not and it largely depends on the corporate policy.
If I said, "All flight attendants over 60 years old are decrepit, need to get a cat and retire, fatty fat fat" by mistake over the PA, Southernjets can't have me arrested (constitutionally protected speech), but they certainly are within their rights to suspend me (company policy about professionalism).
But what is professionalism?
Just like I asked during my hearing in Oklahoma City when the Fed's wanted to revoke my CFI, "What is ATP-quality English?" (true story!)
Well the real question is, what do YOU think it is and did you adhere to it?
"The people on the internet say it's ok" is really no defense when you're at the big brown desk at HQ.
My overriding point is that we all need to take a peek at our FOM and corporate policy. Luckily, the pilot in question came out ok, but you or I may not have as good of an outcome.
RightSeatGirl
KA'PLAH BITCHES!
Look ya'll , it's the level of reaction to this that I have a problem with..The guy was censured and kept his job, there really is nothing for me to debate regarding the actual outcome. My problem is with the opinion that he deserved termination and should be culpable in a law suit. That is the type of over-the-top, overreaction that I would like to see toned down...I agree that when you open your mouth at work with something nutty, you better be damn sure it's not to the wrong person.
Gonzo
Well-Known Member
Do you not see how he could become a liability for SWA?
RightSeatGirl
KA'PLAH BITCHES!
I'd say that would depend entirely on the ability of his co-workers to maintain objective professionalism and simply do their jobs. I fly with lots of tools some of whom I'm sure feel mutual , but I don't let it effect my performance in the cockpit.
I thought that you and I were discussing big picture stuff, not the details about this specific case. :dunno:
See, that's where we actually still disagree. I contend that you can't know whether or not it is the "wrong" person, so it shouldn't happen period.
The old, fat, ugly and gay FA's should be the only people that would have a problem with him......
Bumblebee
Commodore
troublemakerThe old, fat, ugly and gay FA's should be the only people that would have a problem with him......
RightSeatGirl
KA'PLAH BITCHES!
I don't think the two can be separated Steve, the details are intimately intertwined with the big picture stuff. And am I to believe that say i.e. I am flying with someone I've known for 10 + years or more, whom I consider to be a very good friend is someone that I can't have any level of accuracy insofar as my assessment of that's person's feelings on a certain topic? I know my friends so well I can practically read their thoughts and they mine..I'm not understanding your position. Me personally, I never discuss things in terms like our friend at SWA was using with co-workers, even one's I have known for years, unless I considered them to be close personal friends. I do agree that even then there is a risk, but that's up to me to take. It's a personal choice. We are talking about technique vs. procedure. They aren't really comparable.
I refuse to live "in fear" of the company. I feel that Americans are being cleverly swayed into a mindset where we accept "paid slavery" as the norm. Where corporate employment implies and should be upheld to be corporate "ownership" of the employee. Again, where does it end?..If we allow employers to have expectations that we no longer have personal privacy just because they pay us is not the direction I feel we should be heading.
You guys, THIS is where I do not want this country to go, all fictional aspects aside, its where we seem to be heading:
WARNING - You Tube clip contains foul language.
[modhat]sorry can't have this on here...ironic, huh? [/modhat]
I'm a horrible typist, as a result I often type something with a syntax error that unfortunately results in a lot of what I say being taken out of context...I sometimes catch my error and change it.
BeRich
Very Special Agent
Having an unpopular opinion is completely fine. Using bigoted slurs IN THE WORKPLACE is not. No he does not need to be fired, but suspended? Probably. Yes it's bad luck, but poop happens, and if you end up broadcasting a rant like that across a public frequency, you're going to have to deal with the consequences.
bunk22
Well-Known Member
I think that's about the extent of it. I'm all for having opinions but companies have policies so if you break it, there is certainly going to be some consequences and you have to be ready to accept that if you cross their line. But I agree with RighSeat as well in that a lawsuit, firing is a huge overreaction.
FlyingScot
Spanish Proficient
I should have used the sarcasm quote on that statement. I think it is hilarious that he is mad that he does not have a choice of 3 willing hotties to choose from on each trip. Maybe better yet rotate the crew each day so he can choose a new one each night. The problem is the fact is he is hateful towards those unworthy of hooking up with. If the FO in fact was gay the Capt has created a hostile work environment. Anyone that is not a white Christian male has heard hateful statements, from coworkers, but even with thick skin you would not want to spend 3 days in a cockpit with someone you think is prejudiced against you. If the pilot was gay he should have told the Capt., I hook up with a different hotty every time I fly out of Chicago. Let the Capt do the math and hopefully this will shut him up.
Even if his wife was understanding before, all bets are off when CNN gets involved, just ask Arnold. I am also guessing his suspension and sensitivity training is not the end of his punishment. My be is he is on "double secret probation" and any incident where he is not sensitive, caring or polite to a gay, grannie or grande will end up in a hearing where his cockpit conversation will be played. He is probably destined to clean out the seat back pockets between each leg from now till he retires.