Oops...stuck mic houston center

I believe that this kind of mistake is grounds for termination.

His "bad luck" shouldn't be brushed off with a "don't do that again," because setting a precedent like that would be a step backward. Just because the slurs he made didn't offend the person sitting next to him doesn't make it right. Private conversations in the cockpit are exactly that— private. But when it goes out to ATC and into the media, it transcends into a whole other isue.

Should his career end here because of his bigotry? Not necessarily. Personally, I think Southwest should give him the boot on their principles, and he can attempt to get another gig.

I'm not one of my fellow gays who will no longer fly on Southwest for this instance, because I know that it's not the true Southwest. Remedy? Get laid, dude.
 
Can someone explain to me how this tape got out in the first place? ATC's concern would be with the safety issues involved with a stuck mic, right? Even if they recorded the tape and gave it to SW, it's in SWs best interests to keep that quiet right? Was some lucky person at home monitoring center on liveatc? Help me understand how a random tape from Houston Center goes public. Thanks.
 
Let the bigots be bigots, this is no grounds for termination though. I've personally seen people I wouldn't expect go on rants like this behind closed doors and it doesn't bother me, since it's intended for closed doors. Now, if this guy purposefully aired this to center, then fire him. It was an accident, let's move on.
 
CaptainBobbie said:
I believe that this kind of mistake is grounds for termination.
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The company suspended him. As long as it was a decent length suspension (I'm not sure how long it was), then I think that's sufficient for a first time offense.

Arnie7781 said:
Can someone explain to me how this tape got out in the first place?
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Anything over the ATC frequencies is considered public information. It was obtained with a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request.
 
Doug Taylor said:
Have fun with that.

Personally, I'd like to put my career in LRC/ECON cruise.

My code of professional conduct means I go to work, do my job, save the drama for someone else's mamma then cash that check.

My employer owns the brand, sets their standard and I either adhere to their expectations of conduct set forth in the FOM or I can shake my fist, yell "Freedom of speech! I need to express myself!" then slowly watch my unemployment benefits run out.

True story. There was a pilot a few years ago that got a speeding ticket and went to court to fight the ticket. The officer mentioned his responsibility and duty to keep the roads safe and that drivers adhere to the law. Part of the defense of the defendant was to lecture the officer about responsibility and how his responsibility was greater than the officers because he flew airplanes. Airplanes with 100's of people onboard so how dare the officer lecture him about responsibility when he's a vet, flew life or death missions over enemy territory, blah blah blah. And how as a pilot for "Major Global" Airlines, a small town traffic cop.... Well, long story short, he ended up in the pokey for contempt of court and apparently he got fired.

One of my goals is to stay out of the chief pilot's office, avoiding going to the "big brown table" with the chief pilot on one end, and me and my union reps on the other.

"Freedom of speech" is a much ballyhooed, little understood issue.
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You completely misunderstood every aspect of my point.

flyeagle111 said:
Let the bigots be bigots, this is no grounds for termination though. I've personally seen people I wouldn't expect go on rants like this behind closed doors and it doesn't bother me, since it's intended for closed doors. Now, if this guy purposefully aired this to center, then fire him. It was an accident, let's move on.
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Precisely...

Sometimes by the way some of you guys post I swear you'd be much happier living under a completely oppressive communist regime. I'm 41, and it freaks me the hell out how many of our younger people view this kind of asinine overreaction to some stupid words that were never meant to be delivered publicly as being, normal, or correct, or deserved..that the guy needs to be sued or censured or fired...Man, what a nation of total sissified whiners we have become.."Do as I say, not as I do." should replace "in God We Trust.."

40 years ago this guy would have been punched in the mouth and that would have been the end of it...Now stupid opinions and a bigoted attitude (which, by the way was over perceived) gets national news coverage....Yes folks, the world is clearly coming to an end becuase one airline pilot is a moron...
 
Not true at all..I don't know Doug. I don't formulate opinions on people based on message board banter. He could be a great guy, could be a jerk..I have no idea, never met the dude...I do however disagree with Doug, pretty much almost always...Our mutual disagreement is pretty much all we have in common, lol.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
No, I think everyone got it. It's basically "it's ok to be a bigot." Very enlightened. :rolleyes:
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Well, you clearly didn't because that is not what I said and not what I meant. Perhaps my use of complex explanations was too much for you to grasp? Verbal bigotry in private conversation is hardly illegal...The guy has the right to his opinions. That's all I was saying, nothing more, nothing less..If you want to villianize me because you think it makes you look cool to the popular click of the board then I can't help that, but you're dead wrong in your assessment of my comments.
 
What I'm trying to say is that you have your rights to your opinion, sure, no one is debating that.

However, when you're on the company dime, they are within their rights to decide when, where and how those opinions are expressed.

Southwest handled the issue internally.

I have the feeling that I would have gotten canned. So if I get called into the chief pilots office, my angle is going to be "Sir, I'm sorry. It was a mistake and I will do diversity training" instead of "Hey, them's my constitutionally protected freedoms to think and say what I want". I'll bet you a dollar that he went to the CPO with hat in hand, mouth shut, humble and ears open.

This is a great example for learning and understanding, not some opportunity for some anonymous Internet fist shaking.

He got off fairly easy, good! :). At least I think he did.

The main point is that other companies may not be this understanding or lenient. I don't need any more "Dear Dough" emails.
 
In truth, I agree with you more than I disagree with you, but it concerns me when we as Americans begin to accept "corporate dictation" regarding personal communication and the threat of prosecution over "thought crimes" as "okay, or yeah, the company has the right to go there. No one is arguing, well at least I'm not, that a company can't terminate or discipline someone over a "code of ethics" violation. When we accept employment somewhere we are bound to company policy, I get that. But I will not, and cannot agree that the intimate nature of a private conversation is fair ground for disciplinary action when the details of that conversation were only brought to light through extraordinary circumstances regarding a rare technical malfunction (In four years of line flying, in 20 year old over cycled aircraft it's happened to me only once.). If we go there, then why not authorize random screening of CVR tapes? Or why not phone calls while you're at it..you're on duty talking to a friend or spouse in private commenting on something crude or inappropriate for public consumption, by your rationale, a company should have the right to monitor that conversation even if it's on a privately owned phone..No difference in my book.
 
RightSeatGirl said:
Verbal bigotry in private conversation is hardly illegal...The guy has the right to his opinions.
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Not in the work place, he doesn't.

That's all I was saying, nothing more, nothing less..If you want to villianize me because you think it makes you look cool to the popular click of the board then I can't help that, but you're dead wrong in your assessment of my comments.
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You said, and I quote, "People can be bigots and idiots and still maintain "good moral character."

Sorry, but there aren't too many different ways to interpret that, and it's pretty disgusting.
 
What do you know of this man? His opinions of the number and sexuality of some of his co-workers is about all I know of him..Are you somehow in the know? Do you have access to his life history? Has he ever committed a crime? Harmed someone? Scammed someone? Hurt someone? You seem to focus too much on the phrase "good moral character" as being something black and white. It isn't that simple. This guy, considering he's an airline pilot, likely never committed anything more serious than a traffic offense in his life, and you are acting as judge, prosecutor and jury and condemning him to the land of the morally lost over 5 minutes worth of privately expressed nonsense? How can you fail to see the absurdity in that position?
 
RightSeatGirl said:
How can you fail to see the absurdity in that position?
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How do you fail to see the absurdity of questioning whether he's a bigot when he used bigoted slurs? I'm sorry, but if you use the "n word," you're a racist. Likewise, if you use anti-gay slurs, then you're a bigot. It's really pretty simple.
 
First of all you are dead wrong, the use of certain terms can have a wide variety of intent and meaning. Inflection, actual intended definition, physical mannerism all play into the intent of communication. Your opinions are far too absolute. I think you have a great deal to learn about people. Just because you don't like, as your example showed, the "n" word, doesn't mean every one else is offended by it. Doesn't seem to bother black people that use the word as a term of endearment now does it?

I listened to the tape, read the transcript. He used words like "homosexual", "gays", "grannys"..I didn't hear or read "•", "queer", "dyke", if I missed it please point it out. Though that might change my opinion of this man's intelligence, it would change nothing else on my position....I am gay, and what he said didn't offend me, mostly because I don't care about the ramblings of idiots..Personally I think the guy was complaining because there weren't enough young attractive straight chicks for him to pounce on and nothing else really mattered...In itself that's sad, but a different issue entirely.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Not in the work place, he doesn't.
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The hell he doesn't! There is no time/place/universe where suddenly someone is not entitled to an opinion. Doesn't matter if it's right or wrong. I'm very surprised to see what side of this debate you are on Todd. IMO the most the bad luck captain in this incident should have gotten was a nice little be more careful when you open your mouth letter in his file. Seems to me most people in society today need to toughen up and quit looking for reasons to get offended about everything.
 
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