Oops...stuck mic houston center
- Thread starter flyeagle111
- Start date
titansox
Well-Known Member
Racism is never going to die in this country if it keeps getting brought up in situations it shouldn't be (or as the case seems to be, in every single topic). How many times do people have to cry wolf play the race card before it loses it's relevance? People are suggesting that because he is white, he keeps his job. Or the idea that he should have to apologize to the public like Tracy Morgan did. This is just another topic that has nothing to do with race yet somehow its brought up. Pathetic.
Kingairer
'Tiger Team' Member
I'll take that bet!
He's a pilot for ASA!
How much you wanna bet this guy is actually a closet gay. Banging chicks and all that ok, Personal conversation or not, he crossed the line with the slurs..
As long as he's not offending anyone in his own cockpit, who cares what he says. So he has an opinion, whether we agree with it or not, he has a right to it. It was just his bad luck that the transmitter was keyed.
Again, lets not all act high and mighty and "shocked" that these cockpit topics of conversation occur daily in many cockpits in the National Airspace System.
RightSeatGirl
KA'PLAH BITCHES!
Hell the dudes nonsense didn't bother me in the least..what are the words of one idiot...I think he's gonna get all the punishment he deserves from his co-workers. Lawsuits, suspensions, man..this freakin country has lost it's mind..It's called freedom, and particularly freedom of speech..The unlucky bastard wasn't transmitting on purpose, he didn't write down his commentary and post it out there for the world to see..he was having a private conversation and got fracked by ye ole stuck mike...What is shameful about all this is how the media has handled it..We all want to be free, but no one wants to accept the price for freedom, which is..living side by side with idiots, bigots and morons...Ya can't have it both ways people...
drunkenbeagle
Gang Member
RSG - missed ya' - where have you been? agree with you too Mike, bad luck for him, but I am sure I have said worse at some point.
ASpilot2be
Qbicle seat warmer
Agreed. Missed you too RSG.
It's a tightrope. Talk about what you want to talk about but a lot of corporations are exceptionally protective of their brands.
Spark up the beer bong and going dwarf-tossing on your off days is fully acceptable.
Doing the same and wearing a Continental Airlines shirt is something else.
Spark up the beer bong and going dwarf-tossing on your off days is fully acceptable.
Doing the same and wearing a Continental Airlines shirt is something else.
inigo88
Composite-lover
Pilotforhire587
Lycra Man
THATS AWESOME..
RightSeatGirl
KA'PLAH BITCHES!
Though I would agree that there is a mentality among some corporations that someone "wearing" their brand is subject to that corporations ethical standards and subsequent codes of conduct, I disagree that such a mentality should be enforced to an absolute degree. In uniform, in streets, on duty or off duty, no corporation has any "right" to dictate subject matter of private conversations between it's employees...period. Employees are obligated to conduct themselves appropriate to their position, to that point I side with corporate America, but that concession still does not warrant control or constraint in any official capacity regarding interpersonal communication (the one exception being if that communication is via electronic means owned by your employer). It's a self policing system that preserves both corporate interests and personal liberty when it's left to it's own devices and most of the time it works well. Any employee that cannot keep one's "controversial" opinions out of unwelcome and inappropriate forums will pay for that lack of judgment in many possible ways up to and including job loss or even civil suit.
To believe that a private conversation in a cockpit in cruise flight is the rightful domain of corporate scrutiny by default is a mistake. And it opens the door towards a dangerous precedent. Now, if on the other hand the other pilot in that cockpit who was on the receiving end of that rant was offended, then that pilot had a responsibility to state his/her offense and communicate that the subject matter was inappropriate. If it continued regardless, then a proper complaint to the HR people should have bee levied.
In short, my wearing the uniform or brand of my employer regardless of that employer's ethical or moral standards has no right to tell me how to think and who I am allowed to share my thoughts with, or when I share them. But it is my responsibility to use sound judgment as to when topics of a controversial nature should or should not be shared. And I also must understand what could result if I say something to the wrong person at the wrong time. We all do have to take responsibility for our words both the good and the bad. But, this all really comes down to knowing who you are talking to. The type of rant recorded would be pretty brazen if laid down on someone you barely knew. But flying with someone who you know either agreed with your nonsense or at least wasn't offended by it..well..the company can bite me in that case...
There is no grounds for lawsuits and this pilot should not have faced any discipline in the least. People can be bigots and idiots and still maintain "good moral character" provided they never act on their position beyond a private rant that we all were accidentally witnessed to.
RDoug
Well-Known Member
According to the NTSB, this is now a "professionalism issue."
They also want to start holding both pilots and controllers "accountable for professionalism."
They also want to start holding both pilots and controllers "accountable for professionalism."
Have fun with that.
Personally, I'd like to put my career in LRC/ECON cruise.
My code of professional conduct means I go to work, do my job, save the drama for someone else's mamma then cash that check.
My employer owns the brand, sets their standard and I either adhere to their expectations of conduct set forth in the FOM or I can shake my fist, yell "Freedom of speech! I need to express myself!" then slowly watch my unemployment benefits run out.
True story. There was a pilot a few years ago that got a speeding ticket and went to court to fight the ticket. The officer mentioned his responsibility and duty to keep the roads safe and that drivers adhere to the law. Part of the defense of the defendant was to lecture the officer about responsibility and how his responsibility was greater than the officers because he flew airplanes. Airplanes with 100's of people onboard so how dare the officer lecture him about responsibility when he's a vet, flew life or death missions over enemy territory, blah blah blah. And how as a pilot for "Major Global" Airlines, a small town traffic cop.... Well, long story short, he ended up in the pokey for contempt of court and apparently he got fired.
One of my goals is to stay out of the chief pilot's office, avoiding going to the "big brown table" with the chief pilot on one end, and me and my union reps on the other.
"Freedom of speech" is a much ballyhooed, little understood issue.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Sadly, I've had plenty of pilots start with the racial slurs and such in the cockpit. We haven't come as far as we like to think.
The 717 has a warning tone that sounds when you're mic is keyed for too long. I can't remember the exact time that it takes, but it's certainly short enough to prevent this sort of extended rant from going out over frequency.
There's a difference between simply being embarrassed, and being a bigot. This guy crossed the line with his slurs against gay people.
You know as well as I do that if someone was overheard using anti-gay slurs at a water cooler in any office in America, he'd be fired on the spot.
He's not entitled to express his bigotry in the work place. The cockpit is the work place for pilots. Using racial/ethnic/gay/religious/etc. slurs in the work place is completely unacceptable. If he wants to talk about his preference for hot young flight attendants, then that's fine. But using the anti-gay slurs is where it seriously crossed the line.
Wrong. An employer has every right to dictate whatever it wants to its employees unless they have a contract that prohibits such, as long as the rules don't involve discriminatory practice (race, religion, etc.). If the company wants to make a rule that says you aren't allowed to talk at all in the cockpit, then they have that right. You are a private citizen working for a private corporation. Freedom of speech doesn't enter the equation.
Unbelievable. A bigot can still be of "good moral character?" I don't even know what to say to that. Just unbelievable.
Screaming_Emu
Well-Known Member
Indeed...he's still free to say those things on his own time. He won't go to jail for saying them.
However...the company probably has something in the FOM about professionalism and maintaining a professional image. The cockpit is hardly a "private place". The gubment might have a leg to stand on too since this was all transmitted on radio frequencies which THEY own. Yes, he didn't mean for everyone to hear it. Just like people who get in a car accident didn't mean to do it, he's still going to be liable.
Fired? That might be a little extreme. But I don't buy the "here's a pat on the back, you were just exercising your freedom of speech" argument at all. For the same reason you can be disciplined for coming to work with a mullet, you should be able to be disciplined for things like this. Just because you didn't mean for everyone to hear it, doesn't make it ok. If this is just exercising free speech, I'm going to see how many F bombs I can work into my next PA.
