Pilots: "See and avoid," and "right of way" - some help?

[fish314]

Re: Pilots: "See and avoid," and "right of way" - some help

I was always of the impression that "well clear" was defined as (at least) 500 feet.

Hey Hacker, I've heard that since UPT too. Now that I'm a safety guy and the resident HATR expert, I'm trying to find a reference for that. Any ideas? I can't seem to find anywhere that is says that number... but just about everyone seems to quote it.

I think it may be one of those WOM's that never seems to die... unless maybe you know of a source document?

 

[MikeD]

Re: Pilots: "See and avoid," and "right of way" - some help

Hey Hacker, I've heard that since UPT too. Now that I'm a safety guy and the resident HATR expert, I'm trying to find a reference for that. Any ideas? I can't seem to find anywhere that is says that number... but just about everyone seems to quote it.

I think it may be one of those WOM's that never seems to die... unless maybe you know of a source document?

For VFR aircraft, they need to be separated from VFR/IFR aircraft in one of two ways:

-From aircraft >19,000 lbs and turbojets: 1.5 miles; or 500' vertically.

-From aircraft 19,000 lbs and less: 500' vertically, or target resolution, or visual separation.

 

[RobertB]

Re: Pilots: "See and avoid," and "right of way" - some help

For VFR aircraft, they need to be separated from VFR/IFR aircraft in one of two ways:

-From aircraft >19,000 lbs and turbojets: 1.5 miles; or 500' vertically.

-From aircraft 19,000 lbs and less: 500' vertically, or target resolution, or visual separation.

That is Class Bravo radar separation requirements for controllers or are you saying pilots are supposed to know whether there is target resolution between them and another aircraft weighinh 19,000 lbs or less?

 

[MikeD]

Re: Pilots: "See and avoid," and "right of way" - some help

That is Class Bravo radar separation requirements for controllers or are you saying pilots are supposed to know whether there is target resolution between them and another aircraft weighinh 19,000 lbs or less?

No, it's for the Class B separation. I posted it due to the oft mention of 500', which while not specifically stated as such, appears to be being used as a definition of "well clear".

 

[fish314]

Re: Pilots: "See and avoid," and "right of way" - some help

For VFR aircraft, they need to be separated from VFR/IFR aircraft in one of two ways:

-From aircraft >19,000 lbs and turbojets: 1.5 miles; or 500' vertically.

-From aircraft 19,000 lbs and less: 500' vertically, or target resolution, or visual separation.

Thanks for that Mike! Everyone I hear says 500', meaning 500' in any direction (vertically OR horizontally). It's interesting to see that the real number (at least for Class B airspace, and airplanes >19000 lbs) is close to 18 TIMES that far. Where are you quoting from?

 

[MikeD]

Re: Pilots: "See and avoid," and "right of way" - some help

Thanks for that Mike! Everyone I hear says 500', meaning 500' in any direction (vertically OR horizontally). It's interesting to see that the real number (at least for Class B airspace, and airplanes >19000 lbs) is close to 18 TIMES that far. Where are you quoting from?

Its out of the 7110.65 (ATC manual) in inference to Class B VFR separation. As it shows, the appearance of 500' in multiple places gives the impression that its used as some sort of "well clear" definition, as it's in multiple places and mentioned as such.

 

[fish314]

Re: Pilots: "See and avoid," and "right of way" - some help

Its out of the 7110.65 (ATC manual) in inference to Class B VFR separation. As it shows, the appearance of 500' in multiple places gives the impression that its used as some sort of "well clear" definition, as it's in multiple places and mentioned as such.

Thanks Mike!

 

[FM_Weasel]

Re: Pilots: "See and avoid," and "right of way" - some help

No, it's for the Class B separation. I posted it due to the oft mention of 500', which while not specifically stated as such, appears to be being used as a definition of "well clear".

What's the implication here? I don't see how what RobertB said was wrong.

 

[MikeD]

Re: Pilots: "See and avoid," and "right of way" - some help

What's the implication here? I don't see how what RobertB said was wrong.

Ha! I just saw what I wrote and noticed I responded to RobertB with an answer intended for Fish314......that answer to Fish was to piggyback RobertBs comments.

Man..I messed that one up!

Thanks for catching that.