Chief Captain
Well-Known Member
Leave a post-it on the windshield and just write "91.13" on it.
Being an air traffic controller...
- Thread starter A150K
- Start date
Leave a post-it on the windshield and just write "91.13" on it.
Hahaha thats riddle talk for tally-ho!
Vector4Food
This job would be easier without all the airplanes
That statement is based on experience?
I've been on both sides, flying in a terminal environment with a "newbie" as you say can be stressful, for about 15 minutes until you're on the ground, then that newbies Instructor got to keep enjoying the experience for another 7 hours and 45 minutes. For around 140 shifts
trafficinsight
Well-Known Member
Vector4Food
This job would be easier without all the airplanes
I want to add, I can't speak personally to the life of a career pilot, but I can assure you of one thing, unless you've done ATC you have no clue about how stressful it is.
Went out for cocktails with ATCRET2003 and we talked about that. Until you're behind the scope, there's just no way to convey that.
Rock solid guy.
When you come down to the states, let us know!
Autothrust Blue
“If you jump on my shift, that’s just rude, man.”
I have mad respect for ATCs, even if I give you guys a hard time on occasion, there's no way I could do what you do.
Herein lies the problem: (From FAR Part 61, Private Pilot requirements)
"(iii) Three takeoffs and three landings to a full stop (with each landing involving a flight in the traffic pattern) at an airport with an operating control tower."
This requirement is by far, inadequate. I did my ppl out of a class C airport and proper radio comms were imperative, or you would get "eat up" by both the controllers and the commercial traffic, especially when it was busy. As one instructor explained, it is like a cadence, and you need to chime in at the same beat at the right frequency, or, as we saw on many occasion, get vectored away from the field to make room for the ones who have their game together. It took me waay more than than "Three takeoffs and three landings" to get used to the proper comms, nonetheless be able to stay on it without a lot of "uhhhh.........uhhhh..........uhhhhh" on the air. It was stressful starting out, but it made me a better pilot for the experience. I think they should modify the ppl requirements to say that not only should you have 20 t/o and landings at a tower controlled field, but that your requisite cross country flights should be from/to tower controlled fields, with a FSS in-air activated flight plan, and with flight following.....and a WX call to FSS.....and a PIREP!..... yeah, something like that.
When I fly into many a uncontrolled fields on a Saturday afternoon, I just want to go through the FBO slapping folks on the back of the head for some of the ignorant garbage calls they make. Its like there is no middle ground, there are pilots who make proper radio calls, and then there are a bunch of hayseeds who think it is "open mike night" at the airport.
"(iii) Three takeoffs and three landings to a full stop (with each landing involving a flight in the traffic pattern) at an airport with an operating control tower."
This requirement is by far, inadequate. I did my ppl out of a class C airport and proper radio comms were imperative, or you would get "eat up" by both the controllers and the commercial traffic, especially when it was busy. As one instructor explained, it is like a cadence, and you need to chime in at the same beat at the right frequency, or, as we saw on many occasion, get vectored away from the field to make room for the ones who have their game together. It took me waay more than than "Three takeoffs and three landings" to get used to the proper comms, nonetheless be able to stay on it without a lot of "uhhhh.........uhhhh..........uhhhhh" on the air. It was stressful starting out, but it made me a better pilot for the experience. I think they should modify the ppl requirements to say that not only should you have 20 t/o and landings at a tower controlled field, but that your requisite cross country flights should be from/to tower controlled fields, with a FSS in-air activated flight plan, and with flight following.....and a WX call to FSS.....and a PIREP!..... yeah, something like that.
When I fly into many a uncontrolled fields on a Saturday afternoon, I just want to go through the FBO slapping folks on the back of the head for some of the ignorant garbage calls they make. Its like there is no middle ground, there are pilots who make proper radio calls, and then there are a bunch of hayseeds who think it is "open mike night" at the airport.
boondr
Penalty Vectorer
I'l just say I don't have a big problem with inefficient/poor radio skills until I am busy and the pilot with poor radio skills requesting flight following doesn't realize he/she has poor radio skills.
Hint: when you've stepped on a reply in a saturated sector(usually the wrong one ~30 miles from the one you need) for the 3rd time and received "Aircraft calling for flight following, DO NOT CALL AGAIN UNTIL I CALL YOU" maybe it's time to use the "Fish finder" on your Cirrus and fly your own self to the lake house.
That said I don't like chastising pilots as it sounds completely unprofessional even if is is grossly needed.
Hint: when you've stepped on a reply in a saturated sector(usually the wrong one ~30 miles from the one you need) for the 3rd time and received "Aircraft calling for flight following, DO NOT CALL AGAIN UNTIL I CALL YOU" maybe it's time to use the "Fish finder" on your Cirrus and fly your own self to the lake house.
That said I don't like chastising pilots as it sounds completely unprofessional even if is is grossly needed.
Vector4Food
This job would be easier without all the airplanes
That is something definitely on my to do list!
Cheezypoof
Well-Known Member
It all depends on the person... most of the time. Certain situations anybody is going to be stressed but certain people are just not good at the job. Every day of their working lives has got to be stressful. It's a shame but some controllers will time up their breaks to avoid known busy periods. Luckily I know I'm not the only controller that finds the job to be fun and like what I do.
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RDoug
Well-Known Member
Oh, how I hated those. And then there were the one who always called in sick when the wind was out of the northeast through east, because that was our worse traffic flow. Required perfect timing by approach control for the crossing flight paths to the runways.
Bernoulli Fan
Controller
Most of the guys in my area complain the most when it's light traffic. They're only happy when they're busy.
Vector4Food
This job would be easier without all the airplanes
I hate working "slow" sectors it's brutal.
I also laugh at the morons who work harder at not working than they would working.
I also laugh at the morons who work harder at not working than they would working.
Barty
Well-Known Member
I had to do that to a Baron pilot yesterday. He had no comprehension of what "all aircraft calling for flight following, STANDBY" means. He obviously thought it only applied to all of the other aircraft requesting flight following, and not him. I'd ask another aircraft to repeat what they said, and this tool would key back up and step all over my other frequency yet again.
Whether intended or not, you said a lot with that statement. Pretty much summed up my opinion of the current state of GA from at least three angles.
Amen. +1
At the risk of being cliche, I might even say epic. :rawk:
No blood, no foul. Its called "self-policing", and if we fail to do it, we might as well be complicit with the behavior. Keep professionalism high by making unprofessionalism unpopular. Constructive criticism should not be avoided, nor should it be rejected by the recipient if they are professional. Unfortunately this job falls on ATCs shoulders a lot. It may often be humorous or uneventful most of the time, but lack of radio ettiquite or skills is a real drag for the folks who are trying to get things done.
boondr
Penalty Vectorer
I think you tie up more time and effort trying to "teach" somebody something they already know. They obviously disregarded that portion of their training, IMO me telling them how to do it right again is only going to slow me down. I think if you get caught up playing sky police you're missing what's important. I watched a coworker start getting on a pilot about crossing restrictions and how they had to let us know sooner if they couldn't make it, meanwhile the situation that caused it to be a problem was still developing IE he now had 2 planes "wired" at the same altitude and he had to wait for the chastised pilot to finish his explanation before he could gorilla vector both to prevent an error or worse. If he had just fixed it and threw out a "hey be careful with those crossing restrictions, have a safe flight" on the frequency change it would have served just the same purpose.
I will penalize someone that is unable to play coherently with the team but only if it is operationally advantageous. IE the stuttering guy that calls up for flight following with "Cessna-Skyhawk-November-123AB...over...uh...looking for...uh....following..uh..over the...uh... Old Taylor Mill, going....uh.... up the east side of "the.....uh... river" to New York" while I am moderately busy is going to get a "Standby" while the guy who calls "Baron456BA off Smith Airport, requesting following at 3500 to Millville" will get a code as soon as I can type it in.
TWP
Well-Known Member
Yeah it is, the problem is, this particular person isn't exactly that new. She's been there for almost 2 years I believe. I realize it is my job to see and avoid, but it is getting ridiculous.
Some examples include
"NOVEMBERWHATEVER cleared to land RWYBLAHBLAH be advised back taxiing citation on runway ground traffic at the end"
me and instructor immediately burst into tears laughing
"NOVEMBERBLABBITYDOO cleared to land RWYBLARG"
"I'm still holding short"
oh, and my personal favorite, that she does every single time, is telling me I'm number one for the runway when Im four miles out and then telling the traffic that is on a downwind they are number two. This almost always works out to be a perfect collision course.
Really, I only have private pilot students, so I'm always VFR making these mistakes more humerous than anything. I'm hesistant to shoot some approaches with her running the frequency though.
I figure no harm no foul, we all make mistakes, I give atc a break they give me a break, it's just the ATC guys seem to do alot of whining about how stressful their job is when they run absolutely no risk of being smashed through a firewall!
PS somebody said "got em on the fish finder". I can't stand that stuff either. Who thinks this is witty/humerous? It's like a knock knock joke that is way overplayed and wasn't even funny in the first place.
Chief Captain
Well-Known Member
VFR services are workload permitting right? Why not just tell them you're unable flight following if they're unable to use the radio properly? I'm sure they'd shape up really quickly.