So Mr. Bloch likes to forward emails he recieves directly to you huh. Well if that's the case, I am sure he has already sent you an email of the list. Wanna check where I stand on the list? Dude, you really are a piece of work.
Pinacolaba SLI
- Thread starter jynxyjoe
- Start date
So Mr. Bloch likes to forward emails he recieves directly to you huh. Well if that's the case, I am sure he has already sent you an email of the list. Wanna check where I stand on the list? Dude, you really are a piece of work.
jynxyjoe
Queso King
While I don't agree with how CC is characterizing my union's position (which in fairness is not so much a position just a reality of contract stuff that always happens, happened to us plenty) he is quoting the right part. Obviously I don't see us as a Brainwash, BS'ing, lie machine, but I suppose time will tell. I also don't get why we are spending so much time on this, either it is or it isn't. It's not like we can invalidate the JCBA OR the arbitrators decision. Maybe Pinnacle pilots can get some extra vacation time, a seat in front of us on the non revving thing, but the List is the List. Bloch wants the info he wants, he doesn't really seem to care about DOH anyway.
jynxyjoe
Queso King
LOL. Easy man. There have been leaks on both sides, when I read that MSA email I see the following.
- Changes were made to the Pinnacle list referring to DOH. Makes sense, and I think everyone agrees.
- Here's where they changed it
- This change harms us and Colgan
- We don't agree with the change
Changes were made we have to respond, I don't know if this qualifies as a week long legal "dispute". The list has changed from what we had, with no agreed method prior, and we were not notified. It's worth an email isn't it? If you are not following the previous agreement and just tossing new dates on a list I can imagine I'd say something.
You ask what's up with the list. Pinnacle says, "hey stupid, read LOA 2". Mesaba say's, "We just did, you're right, but this was about pass privileges not DOH on the SL".
"Oh yes it is!"
"Oh no it's not!"
"I'm telling DAD!"
"I'm telling MOM!"
I'm just guessing here and trying to add some comedy, but it looks like this is what happened. If Mesaba honestly believes its a error in contract and Pinnacle honestly believes LOA 2 is correct and that's what they agreed to then we've got a fundamental difference of opinion. It seems like this has to be handled by the lawyers AFTER the SLI stuff. Bloch says he can do the list without an answer to the LOA 2 answer so what does it matter for the SLI anyway?
This crap couldn't invalidate the whole JCBA could it?
I apologize. All this is crap is just getting silly really. I think we all agree we need to just see it and move on.
jynxyjoe
Queso King
Yeah at this point the whole LOA discussion is Moot. Whatever process Bloch is using doesn't include our arguments back and forth about the LOA because he's putting the list together now. While us on the boards may be suspecting each other of lying or brainwashing it only matters what the unions are doing and saying. Mesaba guys believe the LOA 2 section V is a mistake, Pinnacle guys don't. It's up to the lawyers later, I have it will be months later before we hear the end result of this. Either way it's June 3rd now, more than a month since May 1st, and its time we saw the damn SLI.
jynxyjoe
Queso King
Oh, the fun hasn't even started yet!
Why? you the new CFO? We have an opening now.
I'm just a couple chapters ahead in "MergerAPolooza: A Love Story"
jynxyjoe
Queso King
Is that the film by Michael Moore?
Cptnchia
Dissatisfied Customer
Oh, the fun hasn't even started yet!
Think this is bad, wait until the bitching and in-fighting gets so bad that their completion factor tanks and big, bad DAL "mesa's" them.
RA and crew are looking for any excuse, regardless how flimsy, to take a weed whacker to the DCI.
I'm a little confused, what do you mean it's up to the lawyers and we won't hear back for months?? The way I understand it, once the list is published, that's the end of it. Bloch only asked for our class dates when we sent the list in, that leads me to believe he sided with 9E on the dispute. I don't think there will be anything for the lawyers to look over.
Cptnchia
Dissatisfied Customer
Not unless "Binding" doesn't actually mean binding to any disgruntled group.
jynxyjoe
Queso King
I'm talking about the wording in the JCBA, specifically that LOA 2 section V. Bloch apparently doesn't care about this stuff for the SLI, so I'm guessing whatever method he chose didn't care about DOH. I'm just reading tea leaves though, I don't have any hard info on what Bloch has decided on.
I don't think anyone is planning any "Airways" manuevers, but I does bother me (and I'm sure others) when the debate is reduced to "he's lying," "NO! he's lying!" "No I'm not!" etc...
Nigel Croker
Well-Known Member
Wow, well it looks once again like another SLI is on its way to pitting pilot against pilot, ala TWA/AA, ala AW/USAir ala, ahhh hell has any MEC ever succesfully integrated two pilot groups without both groups ending up at each others throats and the managment and MEC's laughing all the way to the bank. This is exactly why I am glad to NOT be an airline pilot any more, these mergers always suck for somebody......
crazyjaydawg
Well-Known Member
I would argue that delta/nwa was relatively painless
Nigel Croker
Well-Known Member
True, forgot about that one....but I think that group was only arguing over who gets to retire first....lol
Cruise
Well-Known Member
Would you mind explaining your reasoning why you think an MEC would share in the "laughing to the bank?"
WalterSobchak
Well-Known Member
You are correct sir. Then every one can argue over who the "people in the suits" are. I think other than the loudmouth 9E reps who go against ALPA's wishes by posting in thses forums and spread misinformation everyone else know's what is going on. The adjusted DOH isn't the biggest issue. If it was is as simple as two seperate DOH and Bloch had to legal lists he could make his decision. It can't be that hard to provide a legal list with out errors. We can't blame Bloch for not having 3 correct lists.
9E reps picket for their own sect 6 while in the last day of Joint negotiations AGAINST ALPA National.
9E reps post misinformation in internet message boards AGAINST ALPA National etiquette.
This comes down to 9E's MEC being incompetent and having major errors on the list other than DOH. Hopefully when it's all said and done people won't vote for that stupidity any more.
On a personal note I don't feel bad for people at 9E if their DOH is after training for SLI. You are(were) not paid full monthly guarantee until after training is completed. Your MEC agreed to this. YOUR pilot group voted for that MEC. You chose to go to that show of a company that does things a certain way and then whine about them. I guess JetU/Regional Airline Academy/Gulfstream/other pilot mill told you that being a "jet" First Ofiicer is all that mattered so why bother looking to see how a company treats you compared to the rest of the industry.
I'm just frustrated at the stupidity and will hold nothing against any one once this is complete. I would like to see it complete so we can ALL move forward.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Of course not, anything that helps gain your pilot group at the expense of ours (9E) is something you wouldn't feel bad about. If the situation was the other way around, you'd sing a different tune.
You make it sound like this is the defining moment of what date of hire is, and it is NOT. I got $400/week paid every Friday and was in the Pinnacle's HR and payroll system. As far as I'm concerned, I meet the ALPA's guidelines for date of hire.
That CBA was signed in 1999. So currently, about 140 pilots on property had a say in this deal when it happened. The overwhelming majority (85%) had no say in this since we were not here in 1999.
Alright, if you are at Mesaba, I will argue that you chose to go to an airline that had a shrinking future. Delta does not want the noisy props, and they've made it clear the Saabs will be parked. If you went to Colgan, then I will argue you chose to go to an airline that grew at the expense of another airline, with that other airline's money, and now it's time to give back to the collective group.