PNCL pilots are our brothers! Unity?

Stop whining guys. We have a new CEO. It will all be GREAT. :sarcasm:

That's the best news I've heard from CORP in a while. Sean Menke was really well regarded at Frontier. Some say he did for Frontier, what Gordo did for CAL. Bedford's loss. It can't be worse than what we've had. PT did build PCL from Express one into what it was today, but at a huge cost to the employees.
 
Nothing personal friend, but when SEricson comes on another site and says it was a "clerical" error in Memphis it becomes suspect. Sure, I've seen firsthand how bad CJC and PCL office types can ruin just about anything they touch. But this should be cut and dry. This lists were done and agreed upon. We all know that to be true. The MOU covered the rest. So if it's dribble, what's the issue? I'm not here to stir the pot, serve bs disinformation or anything else. It just seems like there is some backroom dealings going on right now, rather than the list being published.

That's a funny word.. Should..

Shouldn't Bloch have given us his verdict last week? Even though he had made up his mind, he decided he needed the weekend to continue to think about it? Makes no sense to me..
 
That's a funny word.. Should..

Shouldn't Bloch have given us his verdict last week? Even though he had made up his mind, he decided he needed the weekend to continue to think about it? Makes no sense to me..



I couldn't agree more. I somehow see Bloch enjoying his memorial day weekend without breaking a sweat on this list.
 
Dingo has a good point. The 3 lists were certifide way back in the Fall, and those lists are now law. Any discrepancies found now are out. This should be very clear cut, take the certifide list we all agreed upon, take out the guys that are no longer here, and integrate the lists with Bloch's award.
 
Dingo has a good point. The 3 lists were certifide way back in the Fall, and those lists are now law. Any discrepancies found now are out. This should be very clear cut, take the certifide list we all agreed upon, take out the guys that are no longer here, and integrate the lists with Bloch's award.

LOL. Yeah no.

Pinnacle at last update is working on their third try on the SLI in as many days. I don't know what's been going on there for six months and I don't care. We are moving forward. Bloch can't give us a SLI unless all three groups give the proper list, not his fault and it's certainly not Mesaba's fault for doing our job.
 
Joe,

Not blaming MSA, maybe I didn't communicate clearly enough.

What I am saying is that the lists we all agreed upon in the Fall should be modified to account for attrition/firings/retirements only, and then submitted for Bloch's award. In other words, the lists ageed upon shouldn't change except for an update to who is no longer here.

This stuff is step one of the merger process and should not be holding up a decision at the end game.

I hope that makes my point more clear, cause I am not sure how you thought I was blaming MSA? If anything, there should be a serious inquery as to how so many discrepancies appear on a seniority list right before an award.
 
LOL. Yeah no.

Pinnacle at last update is working on their third try on the SLI in as many days. I don't know what's been going on there for six months and I don't care. We are moving forward. Bloch can't give us a SLI unless all three groups give the proper list, not his fault and it's certainly not Mesaba's fault for doing our job.

How does that Mesaba Kool-Aid taste? Is it grape flavor? Cuz I LOVE purple drink.
 
How does that Mesaba Kool-Aid taste? Is it grape flavor? Cuz I LOVE purple drink.

Lol. Alright alright. Sorry if I spilled my Kool-aid onto you. I'm frustrated and upset at this stupidity and I'd love it if Pinnacle could pull it together just ONE MORE TIME for us. Simply the breast.
 
People are talking on the other boards.

They are saying that the reason for all of this is the list Pinnacle gave to Bloch had peoples hire dates changed, some up to 8 months difference from the original list. And it was not just 1 or 2 pilots but more like 100 or so.

Probably unfounded rumors but the guy who wrote it was correct about his last post from a credible source.
 
People are talking on the other boards.

They are saying that the reason for all of this is the list Pinnacle gave to Bloch had peoples hire dates changed, some up to 8 months difference from the original list. And it was not just 1 or 2 pilots but more like 100 or so.

Probably unfounded rumors but the guy who wrote it was correct about his last post from a credible source.

Just call a rep, they'll tell you. It's pretty crazy.
 
They are saying that the reason for all of this is the list Pinnacle gave to Bloch had peoples hire dates changed, some up to 8 months difference from the original list. And it was not just 1 or 2 pilots but more like 100 or so.

Probably unfounded rumors but the guy who wrote it was correct about his last post from a credible source.

I'm completely on the outside looking in but this is the story I heard from several 3rd party high level ALPA people.
 
All dates WERE changed in accordance with the LOA. Still working on the answer about the "8 month". I tend to believe that was a bunch going through when the furlough happened in 01. A bunch started class, were furloughed, called back and finished checkride. Class "start" date to actual checkride was quite a while. Still working on a "for sure" so don't take that to the bank yet.
 
All dates WERE changed in accordance with the LOA. Still working on the answer about the "8 month". I tend to believe that was a bunch going through when the furlough happened in 01. A bunch started class, were furloughed, called back and finished checkride. Class "start" date to actual checkride was quite a while. Still working on a "for sure" so don't take that to the bank yet.
If we were considered employees from day 1 we wouldn't be having this problem. Damn that '99 contract, it was such garbage. I started class in may. I shouldd have mylongevity raise by now, but nope gotta wait til july! Argh!
 
*info verified correct. My sources are the sources.

Well, I can see how folks not familiar with that furlough combined with Pinnacle's class date vs. hire date can assume their own conclusions from the whole situation. Can't be entirely upset with Mesaba or Colgan guys for not understanding the circumstances. Now that everyone has their panties in a wad, I hope folks can calm down and see that no one was trying to rig the system.

I can't wait to see the list; hopefully all these silly accusations will end.
 
Dingo has a good point. The 3 lists were certifide way back in the Fall, and those lists are now law. Any discrepancies found now are out. This should be very clear cut, take the certifide list we all agreed upon, take out the guys that are no longer here, and integrate the lists with Bloch's award.

Cewlguy and dingo, nice try young grasshoppers.

Perhaps you need to be educated on the process and protocol agreement. Specifically............................

This Agreement establishing a Protocol for JCBA negotiations and concluding an integrated seniority list is made and entered into under Part 2C 1 of ALPA Merger Policy by and among the ALPA Master Executive Councils for Pinnacle Airlines, Inc., Mesaba Aviation, Inc. and Colgan Air, Inc.

WHEREAS each of the MEC Parties has determined that the best interests of its pilots will be served by entering into this Agreement establishing an alternative process for negotiating a Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement (JCBA) and seniority list integration (SLI)

NOW, THEREFORE, IT IS HEREBY AGREED:

1. The PCL MEC, MSA MEC and CJC MEC acknowledge that this Agreement constitutes an agreement among them pursuant to Part 2C 1 of ALPA Merger Policy (Merger Policy) for an alternative process for negotiating a Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement (JCBA) and seniority list integration (SLI). Except as provided by this Agreement, Merger Policy shall be applicable.

2. Each MEC will designate up to three negotiating committee members to serve on the Joint Negotiating Committee (JNC) to negotiate a transition agreement and Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement (JCBA), including provisions as to acceptance by management of an integrated seniority list. The President will be requested to waive the requirement for three negotiating committee members from each pilot group for an MEC that desires two instead.

3. Each MEC will promptly establish MEC Merger Committees (consisting of at least two but not more than four merger representatives) for the purpose of concluding a single integrated seniority list (ISL) for the PCL/MSA/CJC pilots under the terms of this Agreement and ALPA Merger Policy.

4. Compilation, verification, certification and exchange of employment data for their pilots for the Seniority List Integration (SLI) process shall commence promptly and be conducted in accordance with Parts 3.C2 and 3.C3 of Merger Policy, modified as follows:

a. PCL/MSA/CJC MEC merger representatives will agree on the employment data to be compiled (e.g., name, EE number, seniority number, DOH, DOB, Equipment/Status/AC/Domicile, furlough time, leaves of absence. etc.). Merger representatives may agree that certain leaves of absence do not have meaning in the SLI process and can be excluded from the compilation.

b. MEC merger representatives will internally compile their respective pilot group’s employment data, distribute the information to each of their pilots for confirmation, and resolve any individual pilot disputes, prior to November 22, 2010.

c. Certified seniority lists will be exchanged on or about November 29, 2010.

d. The certified seniority lists will be modified to reflect changes in individual pilot employment data prior to the completion of the SLI process or submission of issues for a final and binding Arbitration Award.
There you have it. The certified lists CAN be modified to reflect changes in individual pilot employment date PRIOR to the completion of the SLI process. A perfect example of this is adjusting Pinnacle pilots DOH from sim date to class date, a per the JCBA's LOA#2 transition agreement.


Nice try. Next?
 
Cewlguy and dingo, nice try young grasshoppers.

Perhaps you need to be educated on the process and protocol agreement. Specifically............................


There you have it. The certified lists CAN be modified to reflect changes in individual pilot employment date PRIOR to the completion of the SLI process. A perfect example of this is adjusting Pinnacle pilots DOH from sim date to class date, a per the JCBA's LOA#2 transition agreement.


Nice try. Next?

Wow, quite the angst you have there my friend. Nobody is saying that PCL pilots shouldn't have parity when it comes to DOH/Class date etc. We are one pilot group and we should all be the same. However, these lists should have been created LONG before they went to Bloch. It should have been disclosed to the other carriers, just as we disclosed ours. Then to blame it on crew planning etc is just smoke and mirrors. If you changed the dates for parity, say so! These things slowing down the ISL could have been debated months ago. The dealer said turn over your cards: Colgan showed a pair of 8's, Mesaba a pair of 8's, and Pinnacle showed up with a Skipbo and a Draw Four. Parity? I wouldn't have it any other way. Timeliness of the change? Well, real bad timing. That's my only issue with this
 
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