Mig-21

ppragman said:
This. What's the fuel burn on this thing, because that and MX are the only things I'd be worried about. No way in hell would I even try to carry insurance on this part 91.
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The T-38, which is very similar to the MiG-21 in terms of performance, burns about 2,500#/hour in cruise in the teens (so, something on the order of $1500 per hour in fuel, depending on what price you're buying JET-A). If you are doing any type of maneuvering with it, obviously it's much higher.
 
Cal Goat said:
I [obviously] No offense to any L-39 drivers around here, but this thing is much more entertaining to see roaring around at an airshow.
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As long as you're not paying the fuel bill. The L-39 is a good, honest airplane.... but definitely quiet. The L-39 will burn around 400kg/hr (900lbs/hr) at the upper teens/low twenties depending on a few factors obviously.
 
inigo88 said:
There is a guy at Brown field in San Diego with a Mig-21 (along with a Folland Gnat and a Fouga Magister). However, I don't think it has flown in a couple years.

http://californiaflightmuseum.org/

Edit: Brown also has a fair share of L-39s, which is kinda cool.
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Yeah that guy and another older gent from their group came and gave a MIG-21 brief to my squadron a few weeks back. They extended the invitation to come by on any given sat AM and go hangar fly/check it out....I keep meaning to go but have been busy for the last few weekends. Cool that there is one flying in the area though! The -21 is one of the nicest looking legacy jets out there IMHO
 
ryan1234 said:
As long as you're not paying the fuel bill. The L-39 is a good, honest airplane.... but definitely quiet. The L-39 will burn around 400kg/hr (900lbs/hr) at the upper teens/low twenties depending on a few factors obviously.
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Wow, that is barely even sipping gas......bet that makes for a nice go getter for someone who can afford the mx and such
 
///AMG said:
Wow, that is barely even sipping gas......bet that makes for a nice go getter for someone who can afford the mx and such
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It's really easy on the MX.... although parts are getting extremely expensive and downright overpriced from the few places that keep stock in the US (i.e. Pride, IJ, etc). It's amazing how incredibly simple and user friendly the jet actually is. No ground support needed... just fire up the sapphire and start the engine.

One of the problems with the older MiGs is that old manual fuel control (like the F-86)... so you can't just slam the throttle forward without hanging the engine up. The L-39's fuel control works really well... definitely an improvement on older Russian systems. There are a lot of cool, simple systems that work well (i.e. Hydraulic / Emer Hydraulic)
 
ryan1234 said:
It's really easy on the MX.... although parts are getting extremely expensive and downright overpriced from the few places that keep stock in the US (i.e. Pride, IJ, etc). It's amazing how incredibly simple and user friendly the jet actually is. No ground support needed... just fire up the sapphire and start the engine.

One of the problems with the older MiGs is that old manual fuel control (like the F-86)... so you can't just slam the throttle forward without hanging the engine up. The L-39's fuel control works really well... definitely an improvement on older Russian systems. There are a lot of cool, simple systems that work well (i.e. Hydraulic / Emer Hydraulic)
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How much do you work with Pride? I worked for them for a summer in between college semesters.
 
It is always fun checking out the Pride hangar when I am at RFD. I will admit that it was way cooler when they had the two Su27s in there. Haha
 
MikeD, Hacker & AMG. Are any foreign air forces still using the Mig-21? My guess would be yes. If you had to do a visual gun fight in your respective aircraft, would the -21 pose any major problems if it is in the hands of a competent pilot? I guess what I am trying to ask is, what is the Mig-21's strategy versus what you fly?
 
MikeOH58 said:
MikeD, Hacker & AMG. Are any foreign air forces still using the Mig-21? My guess would be yes. If you had to do a visual gun fight in your respective aircraft, would the -21 pose any major problems if it is in the hands of a competent pilot? I guess what I am trying to ask is, what is the Mig-21's strategy versus what you fly?
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A bunch. Still a widely prolific aircraft in third-world air forces of, among others, Libya, Syria, North Korea, Vietnam, Egypt, Cuba, India, Syria; among many others. Chinese variants are also produced

In the A-10, fighting a MiG-21 who knows how to deal with a dissimilar slow-speed fight could be a problem; as he'd be smart enough to not try and turn with me or fight "my" fight. He'd be wise to remain out of any turn circles of mine, and spend time hawking me and making slashing attacks from high to low to high in such a manner that I can't bring my weapons (gun specifically) to bear on him before he's back up to altitude and out of my range. When I was fighting F-5 Tiger II aggressor air-to-air in the two times Ive done it, they were very tough to deal with in this way, as they knew what they were doing. As well, the F-5 is specifically designed to replicate the MiG-21 (as the A-4 was used as a MiG-17-type adversary). In the hands of a competent and tactically smart pilot, nearly any jet can eat your lunch, depending on how you react. In the aforementioned A-10/MiG-21 scenario, my chance of shooting him down would be nil (pending he's using the smart tactics I mentioned), however his chance of shooting me down would be only a little bit better. And in terms of time and depending on our respective fuel states, its very possible I could successfully stiff-arm the MiG to a draw with my defensive tactics, to where he has to bingo out for fuel. My chances of becoming offensive and maintaining it....against a smart pilot......would also be nil.

Against a dumbo pilot, all bets are off.
 
I'm gonna go along with Mike and Hacker on this one, not that I have anywhere near their experience on the subject however. Every jet has it's sweet spot so to speak in terms of tactics and employment, and the smart pilot will maximize his while limiting his adversary's ability to utilize his own. The -21 has also been heavily upgraded in various programs throughout the last number of years, so it is also not the same jet our fathers' generation fought over NVN. That all being said, we have the benefit of training that many MIG-21 operators around the world don't have access to.
 
Was just talking to a crusty patch guy about the MiG-21... and he mentioned that there's still a certain quality in quantity. Depends on how it's used
 
ryan1234 said:
As long as you're not paying the fuel bill. The L-39 is a good, honest airplane.... but definitely quiet. The L-39 will burn around 400kg/hr (900lbs/hr) at the upper teens/low twenties depending on a few factors obviously.
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I get why the L-39 is so popular, but I don't think anyone here can honestly say that it packs the cool factor of a true cold war fighter. I don't want to talk down to your airplane as it's faster and cooler than anything I've ever flown, but when you put it next to the legends, it really looks like a Toyota Carolla. I say that as humbly as possible, because there's nothing bad about a Carolla, it's just not as interesting [to me] as a Dodge Viper.
 
Cal Goat said:
I get why the L-39 is so popular, but I don't think anyone here can honestly say that it packs the cool factor of a true cold war fighter. I don't want to talk down to your airplane as it's faster and cooler than anything I've ever flown, but when you put it next to the legends, it really looks like a Toyota Carolla. I say that as humbly as possible, because there's nothing bad about a Carolla, it's just not as interesting [to me] as a Dodge Viper.
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Well, I would agree with you... the MiG is cooler than the Albatros
 
Cal Goat said:
I get why the L-39 is so popular, but I don't think anyone here can honestly say that it packs the cool factor of a true cold war fighter. I don't want to talk down to your airplane as it's faster and cooler than anything I've ever flown, but when you put it next to the legends, it really looks like a Toyota Carolla. I say that as humbly as possible, because there's nothing bad about a Carolla, it's just not as interesting [to me] as a Dodge Viper.
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There are also lots of downsides to front-line (or former) fighters. As a private owner, I'd much rather own something that sipped 900#'s /hr and didn't require a crew to maintain. That last 10% of the performance envelope of grey pointy nosed jets is certainly a cool thing to experience, but when flying from pt A to pt B, I don't fly my Hornet much differently than a Citation......all that extra performance really doesn't matter if you aren't doing anything tactical
 
///AMG said:
There are also lots of downsides to front-line (or former) fighters. As a private owner, I'd much rather own something that sipped 900#'s /hr and didn't require a crew to maintain. That last 10% of the performance envelope of grey pointy nosed jets is certainly a cool thing to experience, but when flying from pt A to pt B, I don't fly my Hornet much differently than a Citation......all that extra performance really doesn't matter if you aren't doing anything tactical
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Not to mention a relatively large turn radius and overall performance box that many aerobatic boxes simply cannot facilitate. Good luck getting the MiG RVSM'd.. and the low level fuel burn would be crazy. Runway restrictions, speed restrictions, fuel control, limited performance fuel pumps, expensive tires etc. They say that on the earlier -21s... you have a fuel emergency when you start the engine. Visibility sucks...

I'm a relatively big guy.. and this was my view in the -21:

PR164.jpg
 
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