logging time question

Aviator1988

Aviator1988

Well-Known Member
just curious...

when you log X/C time... say i have a flight thats 2 hours on the hobbs. do you log all 2 hours of that as x/c time as well, or do you like 2.0 hours total with 1.8 cross country? i've always logged the whole thing as x/c but now im being told by the orlando FSDO that this is wrong.. any insight?
 
What was their reason for not including the .2? Were they saying it is taxi/run-up time? There are LOI's regarding safety pilot logging while not directly applicable, state that the pilot flying logs the whole time and the safety pilot logs only the time under the hood. Again, not directly applicable, but they have stated that 100% of XC can be logged by the pilot flying.

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...interpretations/data/interps/2009/Gebhart.pdf
 
That just seems like nonsense... I guess we should deduct .2 from every flight since it is spent on taxi and run-up? :sarcasm:

I don't see anywhere in 61.1 where it says time spent taxiing and run-up is not counted towards the time...

(3) Cross-country time means—

(i) Except as provided in paragraphs (b)(3)(ii) through (b)(3)(vi) of this section, time acquired during flight—

(A) Conducted by a person who holds a pilot certificate;

(B) Conducted in an aircraft;

(C) That includes a landing at a point other than the point of departure; and

(D) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing point.

(ii) For the purpose of meeting the aeronautical experience requirements (except for a rotorcraft category rating), for a private pilot certificate (except for a powered parachute category rating), a commercial pilot certificate, or an instrument rating, or for the purpose of exercising recreational pilot privileges (except in a rotorcraft) under §61.101 (c), time acquired during a flight—

(A) Conducted in an appropriate aircraft;

(B) That includes a point of landing that was at least a straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and

(C) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing point.
Click to expand...

Furthermore... 1.1 Definitions...
Flight time means:

(1) Pilot time that commences when an aircraft moves under its own power for the purpose of flight and ends when the aircraft comes to rest after landing; or

(2) For a glider without self-launch capability, pilot time that commences when the glider is towed for the purpose of flight and ends when the glider comes to rest after landing.
Click to expand...
 
I can personally attest to the fact that the Orlando FSDO does this and pretty much every instructor who sends guys for checkrides with Orlando DPEs recommend the same thing.
I went back and did an adjustment line after I moved out of their jurisdiction and found out I log the whole time and not -.2 -.3


It added an insignificant 5 or 10 hours in my xc time but it's still time that I paid for, planned for and worked for.
 
I've heard them say that before.

Apparently, they're pointing out that the reg states "time acquired during flight", and going to and from the runway doesn't count as flight time.

Oh well. I'll just take my checkrides elsewhere.

Complete nonsense IMO.
 
Chief Captain said:
I've heard them say that before.

Apparently, they're pointing out that the reg states "time acquired during flight", and going to and from the runway doesn't count as flight time.

Oh well. I'll just take my checkrides elsewhere.

Complete nonsense IMO.
Click to expand...

It clearly does, as someone already posted. Complete nonsense, I agree.
 
Aviator1988 said:
just curious...

when you log X/C time... say i have a flight thats 2 hours on the hobbs. do you log all 2 hours of that as x/c time as well, or do you like 2.0 hours total with 1.8 cross country? i've always logged the whole thing as x/c but now im being told by the orlando FSDO that this is wrong.. any insight?
Click to expand...

Somebody at the Orlando FSDO is on an ego trip.
 
i agree. we actually had a guy turned away from an FAA checkride due to this the other day. unreal. i called other FSDO'S as well and it seems this is just a north florida thing. dubya tee eff? im not changing my logbook, but its like im required to log stuff incorrectly to make the FSDO happy. sigh*
 
Why are you doing FSDO checkrides? Other than initial CFI, there isn't a reason other than trying to save a few bucks. Heck, you still have to get the short straw to get the FSDO for a CFI initial with North Florida.
 
KSCessnaDriver said:
Why are you doing FSDO checkrides? Other than initial CFI, there isn't a reason other than trying to save a few bucks. Heck, you still have to get the short straw to get the FSDO for a CFI initial with North Florida.
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a lot of the DPEs in North Florida follow that dumb rule (at least the 3 I've had personal contact with)
 
elmetal said:
a lot of the DPEs in North Florida follow that dumb rule (at least the 3 I've had personal contact with)
Click to expand...

Sounds like someone in the ORL FSDO jurisdiction needs to write FAA legal and get this matter cleared up once and for all.
 
Roger said:
Sounds like someone in the ORL FSDO jurisdiction needs to write FAA legal and get this matter cleared up once and for all.
Click to expand...
Why would they write a letter to get told they are wrong. It's the pilots affected who should be writing that letter.
 
Yeah, me too. I would like to see an official FAA Letter of Interpretation that says taxi time is flight time.
Just to put an end to this quibbling over .2 on the hobbs.

Of course. I don't think that would be the legal interpretation, since ALL the regulations concerning flight time definitions infer being in flight. I think the legal definition of "power for the purpose of flight" begins with the take-off roll. Applying power to taxi is for the purpose of positioning the airplane to prepare for take-off.

I think that is what a legal interpretation would be.
 
If I plan on going flying and I'm taxiing to the runway, the aircraft is moving under its own power for the purpose of flight. Then After I land and park that is when it comes to rest after flight. I count it all as flight time.

If I'm taxiing from the ramp to the hangar with no intention of heading up in the air then I would never count that.

MY legal interpretation... ::D:
 
nosehair said:
Yeah, me too. I would like to see an official FAA Letter of Interpretation that says taxi time is flight time. .
Click to expand...

Does this count?
http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...0/interpretations/data/interps/2004/kania.rtf

Remember that the definition of "flight time" is not just about people logging time that you perosnally don't like them to. It implicates flight time duty issues for professional pilots as well.

You'll find similar "flight time equals block-to-block time" references in Chief Counsel opinions going back to at least 1979.
 
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