My current thoughts and options

To the Original Poster, it looks like you now have many varied opinions on how to best pursue your aviation career. My advice is to wait and see what the NPRM will be regarding PL 111-216, and make your decision at that point.

Good luck!
 
candiddeck said:
Geez, that's more than a little insulting to many of your contributors, don't you think?
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Not really. Apart from the generally lower experience levels, the comfort of a regional plane sucks. I still remember JSing on a Continental Express ATR-42 back in 1995, and I was somewhat surprised to know that I had more TT than the Capt and FO combined, almost by a factor of twice.
 
MikeD said:
Not really. Apart from the generally lower experience levels, the comfort of a regional plane sucks. I still remember JSing on a Continental Express ATR-42 back in 1995, and I was somewhat surprised to know that I had more TT than the Capt and FO combined, almost by a factor of twice.
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But you still took the jumpseat, right?
 
Matt13C said:
The study you are referencing and using as your proof of this however is not concerning airmanship, it is concerning teachability. Airline training does not teach airmanship, it teaches how to fly the airplane, their way, for a desired result time and time again...if A happens do 1,2 and 3 to correct. Airmanship is X happened...what do I do and having the ability(airmanship) to make it out.
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Just read the paper - agree, it did not look at pilot proficiency at all. It did say that an aviation degree makes one slightly more likely to make it past IOE at a regional carrier. One would think that with four years of preparation focused on getting past a regional training program, that would be true.

But on topic here - major in Economics (or whatever you want, you'll probably change majors at least once anyway) at a non-aviation school. Fly at a few FBOs, fly some different airplanes, have fun.

I would argue that teaching actual flight students, and being able to study on your own are going to help you just as much - perhaps more.

And more hours is never going to be a bad thing. There are lots of great non-airline flying jobs out there that will care more about PIC time than anything else.
 
candiddeck said:
Good point...but of course you never took a jumpseat from regionals since, right?
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Get on with making the point you want to make, dude.

If your point was going to be, "MikeD you are a hypocrite because you criticized the experience level at the regionals, yet you still jumpseated on them," bark up another tree.
 
Hacker15e said:
Get on with making the point you want to make, dude.

If your point was going to be, "MikeD you are a hypocrite because you criticized the experience level at the regionals, yet you still jumpseated on them," bark up another tree.
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I think MikeD can defend himself, but maybe that's not how things work here...I don't know, I'm new.

BTW, yes, that was and is my point. And I also find it hard to believe that this was his last jumpseat on a regional because he found them so unsafe. Thank God those ATR boys got you home MikeD, did you kiss the earth when you got off that deathtrap of a turboprop?
 
drunkenbeagle said:
Just read the paper - agree, it did not look at pilot proficiency at all. It did say that an aviation degree makes one slightly more likely to make it past IOE at a regional carrier. One would think that with four years of preparation focused on getting past a regional training program, that would be true.

But on topic here - major in Economics (or whatever you want, you'll probably change majors at least once anyway) at a non-aviation school. Fly at a few FBOs, fly some different airplanes, have fun.

I would argue that teaching actual flight students, and being able to study on your own are going to help you just as much - perhaps more.

And more hours is never going to be a bad thing. There are lots of great non-airline flying jobs out there that will care more about PIC time than anything else.
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I agree that extra-training events is not the best variable. I think it would have been better to see who was still employed after probation, not just who got through training the quickest. However, if you put yourself in the seat of those who do the hiring, I think they probably are just looking at the bottom line and try to hire people who will get through training with the least amount of extra IOE. While I don't necessarily agree, I understand where they are coming from.
 
candiddeck said:
I think MikeD can defend himself, but maybe that's not how things work here...I don't know, I'm new.
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Yeah, it may be a strange concept...people backing each other up. Sorta the cornerstone concept to CRM, eh? It's what we do in the business that I'm in, but not sure how it works in your neck of the career.

candiddeck said:
BTW, yes, that was and is my point. And I also find it hard to believe that this was his last jumpseat on a regional because he found them so unsafe. Thank God those ATR boys got you home MikeD, did you kiss the earth when you got off that deathtrap of a turboprop?
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Do you have any idea what he does for a living, or what kinds of flying he's done during the course of his career to this point? Perhaps if you were familiar with that, you'd understand better why I posted what I did. Hint: he's not much of a jumpseater.

This was written 6 or 7 years ago, and I'm sure he's had lots of interesting career events since then:

http://jetcareers.com/perspectives/55-perspectives-capt-mike-daftarian-usaf.html
 
Hacker15e said:
Yeah, it may be a strange concept...people backing each other up. Sorta the cornerstone concept to CRM, eh? It's what we do in the business that I'm in, but not sure how it works in your neck of the career.



Do you have any idea what he does for a living, or what kinds of flying he's done during the course of his career to this point? Perhaps if you were familiar with that, you'd understand better why I posted what I did. Hint: he's not much of a jumpseater.

This was written 6 or 7 years ago, and I'm sure he's had lots of interesting career events since then:

http://jetcareers.com/perspectives/55-perspectives-capt-mike-daftarian-usaf.html
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Look, I hold military aviators (and anyone in the military) in the highest regard. They allow us civilians to participate in forums like this one. I am not picking on MikeD, I just pointed out that his insinuation that regional pilots are unsafe and incompetent was insulting. When I pointed it out, he entrenched. When I pointed out they seemed to be good enough to give him a jumpseat, but not good enough for a revenue flight, he deflected, then you joined in.

Just as you defend him, I am defending the scores of regional pilots who have come up the hard way. They may be younger, less experienced, haven't paid their dues like we all have, don't have all the "airmanship" you and the others would like; but they do not deserve to be labeled as incompetent. That is inaccurate and spiteful.

I'll tell you what, it looks like this forum isn't a good fit for me. So I'll leave, and the family tree can go back to one branch.

Good luck to the OP, hope you realize your aviation aspirations!
 
candiddeck said:
I'll tell you what, it looks like this forum isn't a good fit for me. So I'll leave, and the family tree can go back to one branch.
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That wasn't the point of the exchange at all. It looked for a second that you were going to engage in a discussion there, but then you decided to leave. Unfortunate.

I think you'll find, actually, that folks like yourself are in the vast majority on JC and guys like MikeD and myself are in the minority. If there's "one branch on the tree", it's the one that regional airline pilots life on, if anything. If that's not a good fit for ya, well, have a nice day.

I actually like there to be diverse types and levels of experience on the forums, which is why I participate here.
 
candiddeck said:
I think MikeD can defend himself, but maybe that's not how things work here...I don't know, I'm new.

BTW, yes, that was and is my point. And I also find it hard to believe that this was his last jumpseat on a regional because he found them so unsafe. Thank God those ATR boys got you home MikeD, did you kiss the earth when you got off that deathtrap of a turboprop?
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There was nothing wrong with the plane. Turboprop, turbojet, piston, radial........all fine aircraft. Nothing wrong with the airplane at all. But good spoof attempt. I just prefer to avoid the airlines where I don't know what Ill be getting up front experience-wise.

Im not lumping every last regional pilot into the same container, as you'd like to flog me for. Am just saying that with the regionals, there's alot of not knowing what one will get up front. And since mins are being lowered again......look at some of the hiring threads on here....the experience levels are starting to dip down again ala 3-4 years ago and longer.

And for the record, I never said "unsafe" and "incompetent", those are your words. I did insinuate that they were less experienced overall than their mainline counterparts, which is true.

And guess what.....they'll continue to be; so long as the regional world is treated as a "stepping stone".
 
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