DUN DUN DUNNN Super Secret helicopter used to capture OBL!!!

Re: DUN DUN DUNNN Super Secret helicopter used to capture OB

Army Times - Mission Helo was Secret Stealth Blackhawk

So let me get this straight. Since 1999-2000, the same squadron at Groom Lake that does base security in "slick" standard MH-60s by day, tested these babies by night? And then the guys from the 160th in Kentucky would rotate over to Nevada to train on them? (Flagrant unapologetic speculation on my part.) That's badass! :)

Edit: The article also lists a possible reason for the crash being "settling with power," which the Blackhawk is not normally susceptible to, but could conceivably be if they were at max gross, since the empty weight of the MH-60 is already higher and there would be the added weight of all the stealth modifications. I also read either in the same article or elsewhere that the radar-absorbent modifications to the glass do not play well with NVGs, so that could have been a factor (but not sure how accurate that is). Finally the Groom speculation was just that... Flagrant speculation (don't taze me bros!). They could have been at Creech or Nellis or TTR or elsewhere, but hypothetically being inside R-4808N could provide some additional privacy for that type of program.
 
Re: DUN DUN DUNNN Super Secret helicopter used to capture OB

So let me make sure I'm on the same page as you guys; ya'll think that the U.S. military crashed a secret new helicopter because they forgot to check the performance numbers before one of the most important missions in US Navy SEAL history? Forgot to check the performance numbers on a helicopter, if it is in fact what people think it is, was tested in the high desert of the southwest United States?

This ain't no pre solo flight, and I'll bet you dollars to donuts that this thing didn't impact the ground because they simply ran out of power at 4,000' MSL.
 
Re: DUN DUN DUNNN Super Secret helicopter used to capture OB

srsly.jpg
 
Re: DUN DUN DUNNN Super Secret helicopter used to capture OB

Touché John. However I think Settling With Power, aka Vortex Ring State, is a situation you can get yourself into despite ample engine power and good performance numbers. I'm not a helicopter pilot, so I wonder how easy this would actually be to do for the best of the best type guys in the 160th, who like you said, likely trained in similar conditions in the high desert of the south western US. MikeD is this something you could comment on? :)

John, reading between the lines, do you think they were shot down?

Edit: Per wikipedia and the Private Pilot Rotorcraft Oral Exam Guide, Vortex Ring State occurs due to a combination of the following conditions:

1. High rate of descent.
2. Low forward airspeed.
3. "Using a large portion of available engine power" (i.e. high collective pitch/torque?)
 
I think something went wrong (that much is obvious), and I have few ideas on what occurred.

At the same time, I think it's safe to say that a few things DIDN'T happen, and one of those is running out of power unexpectedly because nobody bothered to check the numbers. Shot at? Mechanical trouble? Space aliens coming in and round house kicking the main rotor? Sure sure, but not having enough power at 4,000' at night? It's a super secret military helicopter, not an R-22 :)
 
Re: DUN DUN DUNNN Super Secret helicopter used to capture OB

But... But... I'm trying to say the rotorcraft equivalent to "they flew into their own jetwash!"

top-gun.jpg


:)

Edit: But I hear what you're saying. Come to think of it my money is on the Chuck Norris alien.
 
inigo88 said:
But... But... I'm trying to say they "flew into their own jetwash!"

top-gun.jpg


:)

Edit: But I hear what you're saying. Come to think of it my money is on the Chuck Norris alien.
Click to expand...

I'm glad at least one of the resident jackasses understand my humor at oh dark thirty in the morning :)
 
Re: DUN DUN DUNNN Super Secret helicopter used to capture OB

jtrain609 said:
I'm glad at least one of the resident jackasses understand my humor at oh dark thirty in the morning :)
Click to expand...

It is with great honor that I accept your gracious promotion to join the JC ranks of "resident jackass." :)
 
Re: DUN DUN DUNNN Super Secret helicopter used to capture OB

i thought if was Blue Thunder????
 
Re: DUN DUN DUNNN Super Secret helicopter used to capture OB

I thought I read somewhere that one of the blades hit the compound wall.
 
Re: DUN DUN DUNNN Super Secret helicopter used to capture OB

jtrain609 said:
I think something went wrong (that much is obvious), and I have few ideas on what occurred.

At the same time, I think it's safe to say that a few things DIDN'T happen, and one of those is running out of power unexpectedly because nobody bothered to check the numbers. Shot at? Mechanical trouble? Space aliens coming in and round house kicking the main rotor? Sure sure, but not having enough power at 4,000' at night? It's a super secret military helicopter, not an R-22 :)
Click to expand...

I see what you did there :)

This certainly is interesting, hopefully one day we will actually be able to find out what it was. Stuff usually comes out in the wash, we will probably find out what it was eventually. The idea of us having a new stealth helicopter is pretty cool though.
 
Re: DUN DUN DUNNN Super Secret helicopter used to capture OB

AS for VRS, what basically happens is a helo descends within its own downwash or "dirty air", due to slow forward speed and high descent rate. In order to arrest the descent rate, as the pilot brings in power he actually creates more dirty air, causing an increase in descent rate.....the normal reaction to recover thus making the situation worse. What needs to be done is to get forward speed (or sideways, or backwards.....the helo doesn't care) and fly clear of this dirty air prior to hitting the ground. Its suspected that the USMC V-22 that crashed at Avra Valley Airport, AZ in Apr 2000 encountered this. However the conditions one would find themselves in order to experience this aren't very tactical conditions one would likely be or put themselves in, in combat (slow, high sustained descent rate) especially when heavy.

I have no idea whether this was a factor here or not. But thats VRS in a nutshell for all the Monday morning QBs out there this fine Thursday morning......
 
Re: DUN DUN DUNNN Super Secret helicopter used to capture OB

inigo88 said:
Army Times - Mission Helo was Secret Stealth Blackhawk

So let me get this straight. Since 1999-2000, the same squadron at Groom Lake that does base security in "slick" standard MH-60s by day, tested these babies by night? And then the guys from the 160th in Kentucky would rotate over to Nevada to train on them? (Flagrant unapologetic speculation on my part.) That's badass! :)

Edit: The article also lists a possible reason for the crash being "settling with power," which the Blackhawk is not normally susceptible to, but could conceivably be if they were at max gross, since the empty weight of the MH-60 is already higher and there would be the added weight of all the stealth modifications. I also read either in the same article or elsewhere that the radar-absorbent modifications to the glass do not play well with NVGs, so that could have been a factor (but not sure how accurate that is). Finally the Groom speculation was just that... Flagrant speculation (don't taze me bros!). They could have been at Creech or Nellis or TTR or elsewhere, but hypothetically being inside R-4808N could provide some additional privacy for that type of program.
Click to expand...

"... according to a retired special operations aviator." Who needs to be tracked down and prosecuted. The first rule about the 160th is: you do not talk about the 160th (unless a PAO has cleared what you say). Even retired.
 
Re: DUN DUN DUNNN Super Secret helicopter used to capture OB

Really, guys? We're going to speculate on THIS? Is it not clear that the pilot was granny shiftin' when he should have been double clutchin'?

Diesel-V-1.jpg
 
Re: DUN DUN DUNNN Super Secret helicopter used to capture OB

I do find it ironic that the resident helo gent, MikeD, is very quiet on this topic. Which I would conclude he does know something, but I have been hanging around too many military people, and considering the fact I have never met MikeD, I reserve the complete right to be completely wrong. Besides, I don't think you would want to know if he did tell you in confidence. Just remember everyone he tells is another security risk. As the Navy said in WWII: "Loose Lips, Sink Ships."
 
Re: DUN DUN DUNNN Super Secret helicopter used to capture OB

braunpilot said:
I do find it ironic that the resident helo gent, MikeD, is very quiet on this topic. Which I would conclude he does know something, but I have been hanging around too many military people, and considering the fact I have never met MikeD, I reserve the complete right to be completely wrong. Besides, I don't think you would want to know if he did tell you in confidence. Just remember everyone he tells is another security risk. As the Navy said in WWII: "Loose Lips, Sink Ships."
Click to expand...

Exactly. Let's get him drunk at NJC! ;)
 
Re: DUN DUN DUNNN Super Secret helicopter used to capture OB

SurferLucas said:
Where's MikeD and Hacker and IanJ...I want to hear some insight from our Military JC'ers...
Click to expand...

And ruin the awesome direction this thread is going? No way. Have at it boys. ;)
 
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