Delta ponders pilot sources (Flightglobal article)

WacoFan said:
I understand your point here. But that's how TWA used to do it (and I imagine the other carriers had somewhat similar policies). People talk about the "good old days" and how pilots were perceived and certainly how they were paid. A lot of people write off the degradation of the industry to de-regulation - and certainly that had a negative effect on pay, etc. De-regulation didn't necessarily have to do with the degradation of the profession from the perception point of view though - that's taken a lot longer. It seems there are a lot of threads about "Are Pilots professionals" and "Are pilots glorified bus drivers" etc. In the old days it wasn't a question. Part of the "good old days", in my opinion, was that the barriers to entry were higher, and to keep your job the performance factors were higher. Therefore pilots didn't question whether they were professional or not, they knew it...and since they knew it, they acted that way and they demanded to be paid that way.
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They basically had a government job and acted as such/got paid as such. We have all heard the stories about how much the "good ol' days" pilots could drink in a night before heading out to fly in the morning so don't spew that propaganda BS that pilots back then were more professional than they are now. That crap is spread by companies to convince labor to work cheap.
 
Bandit_Driver said:
I'll believe a pilot shortage when I see actually see one. So far I have been hearing about this so called shortage for 15 years now...According to what my school sold me I should be 747 Captain at Delta by now making 300K. Everyone is forgetting there are highly qualified guys sitting on the sidelines because they aren't going to fly at the regionals for peanut dust...
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Ab-initio programs can also be used as a way to control the pilot group. Someone young with low time and less experience is more likely to stick around, put up with stuff, and etc.... They would less likely be interested in contract negotiations and organized labor activities. They, more or less, would be the people who are just happy to be there and wouldn't have the experience to go anywhere else.
 
TWP said:
They basically had a government job and acted as such/got paid as such. We have all heard the stories about how much the "good ol' days" pilots could drink in a night before heading out to fly in the morning so don't spew that propaganda BS that pilots back then were more professional than they are now. That crap is spread by companies to convince labor to work cheap.
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Considering 95% of those guys were the ones that bombed Japan and Germany into submission, then were able to go through training events that were more "drop dead" than they are now, flying airplanes that took significantly more skill (less technological help, much more complex machines) - yeah, they had an attitude that they were studs - and they deserved it. Those weren't "government jobs" at all - it was simply a regulated industry - big difference. The point I was making was that those guys didn't seem to have the inferiority complex that many today do.
 
The problem with pilots today is that flying has gotten dirt cheap and just about everyone can do it. Flying is no longer the priviledge it once was, and people to don't appreciate it or the crew. Also have you noticed that people have gotten more rude and demanding over the decades? Lastly, corporate feeds into this by kissing the arses of its higher level miles pax. This arse kissing only emboldens their poor and sometimes childish behavior.

A good example of this behavior happend when I was in turboprops. We ended up going back to the gate due to freezing raning on the filed. A pax sees plans still landing and becomes irrate that we are going back to the gate and are too chicken to fly, etc, etc. The FA calls the flight deck and tells us this. The capt and I agreed this pax won't be getting back on when we depart again. We go inside and the capt tells the agent this pax won't be going for the behavior. The pax starts yelling and screaming at the agent and us. We both wallk away. The pax calls the perks number and they relist the pax on the flight. When it comes time to board the pax has more remarks for us and we again have the removed before boarding and the pax throws another tantrum.

I also witnessed another pax deny two requests from the FA to turn off his cell. The last request was made and he tells the FA I'll hang when I'm done now go away. Back the gate we went, you should have seen the look when he was getting escorted off...

I could go on the stuff I have seen that has made my jaw drop...

People seem to think FA and Pilots are their hired slaves...

anyone else notice this general decline in behavior in public?
 
Bandit_Driver said:
I've made that claim a lot...
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I'd make the same claim. A lot. There are a number of reasons for an airline to set up an ab initio program that aren't "OMG! WE'RE GONNA RUN OUTZ!". And none of them are good.

Frankly, the notion that there's some even vaguely-forseeable shortage on the horizon when thousands of extremely experienced pilots are still on the bricks (or working at Home Depot) smells like happy horse-poo being lapped up by the gullible.
 
There will be a shortage of pilots willing to do the work for the current compensation. Heck look at how many former professional pilots we have on the board here that left the profession because of pay and benefits?

Now if the money was there and you didn't have to work 18 days a month to pay the mortgage and eat, you bet your ass that we would draw people back into the profession.

I will go on the record and say there will never be a pilot shortage. Only a diminishing pool of pilots willing to remain in the profession with what the airlines want to pay them.
 
Doug Taylor said:
There will be a shortage of pilots willing to do the work for the current compensation. Heck look at how many former professional pilots we have on the board here that left the profession because of pay and benefits?
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Not at the regionals. Between SJSers and those who think it's the only stepping stone to get the "golden ring" of aviation or those who do it for a hobby, the regionals could pay $10K/year, and there would still be a stack of resumes of those willing to do it. Guaranteed.

I will go on the record and say there will never be a pilot shortage. Only a diminishing pool of pilots willing to remain in the profession with what the airlines want to pay them.
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I agree. However I think the pool of pilots willing to do it........"will fly for food" types......won't diminish. Evidence? Take one look at the 20 page Commutair thread and the number of people dying to work there.
 
Cav said:
This is just it. I think what Southernjets is looking for and what some might consider "qualified" are two different things. If you look at their past hiring practices you can see that they know precisely what they are looking for. Furthermore they want to dictate who comes to the interview more than what the market will give them...thus IMO why they would want to have some input in "cultivating" their ideal candidate. As we already know meaning or even exceeding minimum quals means nothing. It's the full track record plus what you did beyond being just a line pilot adding up hours. This is the first I've heard about this concept....I have mixed feelings for sure.
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WOAH! I don't know how you made all that up, I am guessing you have a strong recency bias. But any major will pick whoever they want out of whatever is given to them. The past ten years have been the worst in aviations history, so they can pick their favorite astronauts, F16 dudes, and hot chicks. But if the tables ever turn they will hire just like they did in the past, peeps with sub 1000 hours, no turbine, etc. "Qualified" is more or less Gonzos definition of 1500tt, college, no skeletons. "Competitive" is a more accurate word and it is a CONSTANTLY moving target.
 
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