Am I the only confused one?

bretthullrampage said:
Isnt Pinnacle only accepting wet commercials from students of particular aviation universities?
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Yes, gonzo is just typing factually incorrect information. PNCL is only taking those kinds of pilots out of two places: WMU and OU. Unless you go to those places, you need to have some decent flight time.

So this comment:

PNCL is a wet CMEL
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Is totally false.

And FYI, there was a pilot who went through a bridge program with around 330 hrs right in 2008 when the airline stopped hiring. He became a FA and has been a FA for over 3 years now, waiting for a pilot class date. He's done the CRJ bridge program, and everything. As of right now, because he isn't form WMU or OU, he does not have a class date nor an interview. So, no, Pinnacle isn't hiring at wet CMEL.
 
Hootie said:
I'll speak for OO. First I do not believe they are hiring 70 a month. They say 50, and it appears to be more like 30. Also I am not sure how it is at other regionals but we have a very high FO attrition rate (higher than captains). So if 30 are hired in a month, at least 10 are going to go somewhere else within the first year.
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I think he's on to something. It makes sense from a business standpoint to tell people you're hiring one quadrillion pilots. Everybody is like "oooh! fast seniority movement! I should work there!" I think their numbers are based in reality but wouldn't be surprised if they're exaggerated.
 
I have to say here the open time amount is ridiculous. I put in a request for double time pay the day before a RSV sequence and the trip is now on hold for me - just the fact that they are considering it blows me away.

Let's all hope the airlines can continue raising their ticket prices.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Yes, gonzo is just typing factually incorrect information. PNCL is only taking those kinds of pilots out of two places: WMU and OU. Unless you go to those places, you need to have some decent flight time.
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Define "decent flight time." You'll get multiple answers. IMO, I know we're interviewing guys with less thant what I would consider "decent flight time" while passing over guys with more experience. Why? The guys with more experience will jump ship the second they get a better offer (which probably wouldn't be more than a year or so). Means more training costs when they have to replace those guys.....after the minimums have been increased by the government.

And FYI, there was a pilot who went through a bridge program with around 330 hrs right in 2008 when the airline stopped hiring. He became a FA and has been a FA for over 3 years now, waiting for a pilot class date. He's done the CRJ bridge program, and everything. As of right now, because he isn't form WMU or OU, he does not have a class date nor an interview. So, no, Pinnacle isn't hiring at wet CMEL.
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You talk about "factually incorrect statements" then toss this out, which is pure speculation on your part. How do you know they haven't given him an interview because of his low time? Maybe it's because they don't want to lose yet ANOTHER FA. Both speculative situations are equally likely.
 
kellwolf said:
Define "decent flight time." You'll get multiple answers. IMO, I know we're interviewing guys with less thant what I would consider "decent flight time" while passing over guys with more experience. Why? The guys with more experience will jump ship the second they get a better offer (which probably wouldn't be more than a year or so). Means more training costs when they have to replace those guys.....after the minimums have been increased by the government.
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I figured regionals wanted more experience for the insurance premiums to go down? Now granted I'm trying to get into an FO position at a regional so I'm on the outside looking in but if I went to an RJ seat tommorrow and got 1000 hours/18 months experience or whatever as an FO in a CRJ what better places could I go? The only thing I can think of is corporate aviation if thats your fancy but thats a whole 'nother type of flying. Because going to another regional is pointless, sure depending upon who you fly for you probably don't like the pay but in another year or two you'll hopefully upgrade to captain. But until you get get that turbine PIC time your pretty much stuck aren't you? I'm honestly asking this as a question, not as a sarcastic retort either.

Also the thing I never understood about hiring 300 hour Commercial pilots, whether they fly well or not... how do they ever upgrade? to be an ATP you need the PIC time which you would only have 100 hours of or so if you just got your Commercial. Is it legal for them to log they're legs as PIC, pilot flying?

Reason I ask is because we have a guy at our flight school that has like 8000+ hours as a flight engineer in the 707 and 747 but only 1500 hours as a pilot. He wants to upgrade to FO but his company requires him to get his ATP first. He is splitting time in our 172 with the other timebuilders to get 500 more PIC to get the ATP done.
 
HVYMETALDRVR said:
I figured regionals wanted more experience for the insurance premiums to go down? Now granted I'm trying to get into an FO position at a regional so I'm on the outside looking in but if I went to an RJ seat tommorrow and got 1000 hours/18 months experience or whatever as an FO in a CRJ what better places could I go? The only thing I can think of is corporate aviation if thats your fancy but thats a whole 'nother type of flying. Because going to another regional is pointless, sure depending upon who you fly for you probably don't like the pay but in another year or two you'll hopefully upgrade to captain. But until you get get that turbine PIC time your pretty much stuck aren't you? I'm honestly asking this as a question, not as a sarcastic retort either.

Also the thing I never understood about hiring 300 hour Commercial pilots, whether they fly well or not... how do they ever upgrade? to be an ATP you need the PIC time which you would only have 100 hours of or so if you just got your Commercial. Is it legal for them to log they're legs as PIC, pilot flying?

Reason I ask is because we have a guy at our flight school that has like 8000+ hours as a flight engineer in the 707 and 747 but only 1500 hours as a pilot. He wants to upgrade to FO but his company requires him to get his ATP first. He is splitting time in our 172 with the other timebuilders to get 500 more PIC to get the ATP done.
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Now that is some quality PIC time right there.:rolleyes:
 
HVYMETALDRVR said:
Also the thing I never understood about hiring 300 hour Commercial pilots, whether they fly well or not... how do they ever upgrade? to be an ATP you need the PIC time which you would only have 100 hours of or so if you just got your Commercial. Is it legal for them to log they're legs as PIC, pilot flying?

Reason I ask is because we have a guy at our flight school that has like 8000+ hours as a flight engineer in the 707 and 747 but only 1500 hours as a pilot. He wants to upgrade to FO but his company requires him to get his ATP first. He is splitting time in our 172 with the other timebuilders to get 500 more PIC to get the ATP done.
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FWIW at ASA we had several hundred new hires in the last hiring wave that had less than 500TT and ATP mins for upgrade are not and will not be a problem. It only becomes a problem if upgrades are less than two years which is not the norm historically. (Yes, it happens, but it's not the norm.)
 
HVYMETALDRVR said:
I figured regionals wanted more experience for the insurance premiums to go down? Now granted I'm trying to get into an FO position at a regional so I'm on the outside looking in but if I went to an RJ seat tommorrow and got 1000 hours/18 months experience or whatever as an FO in a CRJ what better places could I go? The only thing I can think of is corporate aviation if thats your fancy but thats a whole 'nother type of flying. Because going to another regional is pointless, sure depending upon who you fly for you probably don't like the pay but in another year or two you'll hopefully upgrade to captain. But until you get get that turbine PIC time your pretty much stuck aren't you? I'm honestly asking this as a question, not as a sarcastic retort either.
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One would think they'd be hiring the furloughed guys or CFIs that have been instructing for years since the slow down. However, I've seen a couple of sub-500TT guys make it to the line already. I know a bundle of guys with over 2000/500 who aren't getting a call for an interview for some reason or other. It's not all about the hours, so there are some other factors invovled. With the high turnover rate that is likely coming down the road, I'd wager Pinnacle doesn't want to hire an FO that will contribute even more to that by either accepting a recall or going on to a better place. That's just my opinion only, though.

Also the thing I never understood about hiring 300 hour Commercial pilots, whether they fly well or not... how do they ever upgrade? to be an ATP you need the PIC time which you would only have 100 hours of or so if you just got your Commercial. Is it legal for them to log they're legs as PIC, pilot flying?
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We've got guys upgrading now that had less than 100 hours PIC time. Pinnacle has a waiver with the FAA that allows them to give the pilots an ATP if they pass upgrade, but there are restrictions on the ATP until they get the 250 total hours of PIC. Once they pass that mark, the waiver is removed. One of the things they can't do is fly into Canada. 'Causes some headaches with scheduling since these guys are on reserve most of that time, too. I got pulled from my flight going JFK-BOS once because the ready reserve in JFK didn't have 250 hours PIC, and they needed someone to operate JFK-YUL. So, yeah, they can upgrade, but it comes with the strings attached.

Reason I ask is because we have a guy at our flight school that has like 8000+ hours as a flight engineer in the 707 and 747 but only 1500 hours as a pilot. He wants to upgrade to FO but his company requires him to get his ATP first. He is splitting time in our 172 with the other timebuilders to get 500 more PIC to get the ATP done.
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Probably because the company requires their FOs to have an ATP, which I think is a good thing. Also saves them headaches down the road when those FOs upgrade to CA. I THINK Eagle is the same way when it comes to upgrading from FO to CA. If you don't have 250 PIC, you can't upgrade since they don't have the waiver, but I'm not 100% sure. We now have a LOT of FOs that don't have 250 PIC. I know one of the guys in my new hire class just upgraded, and he was hired with 80 hours of PIC.
 
61.159 (C) and (D) should clear up the confusion on ATP mins for SIC's and FE's. I always wondered how a low time new hire would be able to meet the ATP mins but also figured that since every FO at some point has to upgrade, the airlines would have figured out how to get it done.
 
As one who interviewed many hopefuls, I can attest that you can't put a blanket number on experience and aptitude. I've seen 1000/100 CFIs do really well in an interview and go through training with flying colors while a 3000 hr 1900 driver totally bomb everything.

Oh, and 50 a month at SkyWest from a very credible source....
 
I wish the FAA would not grant waivers to companies that put themselves in a position because they hire low time, very potentially low quality guys because they pay crap. Raise the pay and you'll have no problem filling the front 2 seats. I would think they would be forced to if they were not legally allowed(as the regs state anyway) to upgrade people who do not have the minimum requirements to upgrade.
 
z987k said:
I wish the FAA would not grant waivers to companies that put themselves in a position because they hire low time, very potentially low quality guys because they pay crap. Raise the pay and you'll have no problem filling the front 2 seats. I would think they would be forced to if they were not legally allowed(as the regs state anyway) to upgrade people who do not have the minimum requirements to upgrade.
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AMEN
 
z987k said:
I wish the FAA would not grant waivers to companies that put themselves in a position because they hire low time, very potentially low quality guys because they pay crap. Raise the pay and you'll have no problem filling the front 2 seats. I would think they would be forced to if they were not legally allowed(as the regs state anyway) to upgrade people who do not have the minimum requirements to upgrade.
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Can't say I disagree. 250 PIC is NOT that much time in the grand scheme of things. Sure, when you're first starting out on your PPL it seems like a mountain of time. By the time you've finished your instrument and commercial, though, you're at least 1/4 of the way there. Even if you don't instruct, 200 or so hours of cross country flying in the ATC system will do you some good and make you a bigger asset on the flight deck.
 
B767 said:
AE still wants to hire 400 more pilots this year. SKW is looking at hiring 70 a month through summer, then 60/month till the end of the year (rumor). That's almost 1,000 pilots just for the two of the. PNCL is handing out class dates. Almost every other regional is hiring too. Where will they get these kinds of numbers? That is what I'm confused about. Maybe I'm young, dumb, naive, etc. Are there really that "many" pilots out there that the airlines can find the numbers they want? I highly, highly, doubt there are that many qualified ones....
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Apparently there are that many pilots out there. I exceed the minimums of most of the regionals and have never, ever gotten any sort of a response from Airlineapps and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one in this situation. I really have no idea what they are looking for. Not more than 2 check ride failures? Check. Under qualified? Maybe. Over qualified? I doubt it. Was it that seat belt violation I got last year? The speeding ticket in 2006? Maybe they prefer guys with 135 time? People that have at least a couple hundred hours of multi time regardless of what the published mins are? Who knows.
 
Cal Varnson said:
Apparently there are that many pilots out there. I exceed the minimums of most of the regionals and have never, ever gotten any sort of a response from Airlineapps and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one in this situation. I really have no idea what they are looking for. Not more than 2 check ride failures? Check. Under qualified? Maybe. Over qualified? I doubt it. Was it that seat belt violation I got last year? The speeding ticket in 2006? Maybe they prefer guys with 135 time? People that have at least a couple hundred hours of multi time regardless of what the published mins are? Who knows.
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You've gotta know someone.

That's where Jetcareers comes in.
 
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